Hey guys,
I just watched a video from KC turbo showing the giveaway truck installed with 238/80's with max 490 HP at 1090°F EGT. I have my engine torn down and sent out to the machine shop and was originally going with the 180/0-30% build but second guessing my choices. Can anyone give me some personal experience on either builds. This is a few years in the making and have heard that the 238's are to big for towing. My goals are towing medium 5-7k lb loads and would like the truck to drive the best it can, also some unloaded road trips would like to cruise comfortably on highway, and occasionally rip on the street .

this is the turbo shoot out video, they also have another video of them towing another power stroke truck with the stage2 kc turbo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv-kBjMEm2Y

 

It can be hard to run at 500 HP and tow with it reliably. It takes a ton of cooling and lots of AIR to maintain the balance of not melting your engine

These run hot when towing because its doing constant hard work.
Ripping around the street isnt as hard work as there is a lot of rest time.
Heat soak on 1000lb+ engine and 12+ gallons of fluid is where the fun begins.

Most injector can be de tuned to run close to stock.
Stock towing while not a hot rod, will get you there.
The balance you seek isnt easy to answer as many opinions are out there.

Cant wait for the replies from others to chime in so we can learn.

 

This is the problem we are all facing wanting the world out of these trucks. I understand i wont have 500HP tow tune, but a comfy 300tow tune with a 400+ street tune sounds nice. I also have all the pieces to build a water to air cooler set up, hoping to do this build right and have some fun with it.
I enjoy hearing about almost everyone's builds, this is a long time coming for me and im excited to make this truck be more fun!

 

Not sure you will get the same results in an OBS. I recently saw something about their OBS turbo kit but can't recall the details. IIRC, they also hit above 550HP on the give-a-way truck.

200/30's is a good happy medium but I feel it's slow for the fun times; however I came from 250/100's and an SXE369. It feels like a slug in comparison but decent. I contemplate going to 238/80's all the time, ever since the change and seeing that KC build.

Downside of bigger/ hybrid injectors is cold idle haze if that bothers you. Location plays a key factor as well. Someone at/ near sea level will have an easier time with larger injectors than someone like myself that is at 6500' and can quickly travel to 9-12k'. You will want a very quick spooling turbo for sure. You can tow heavy with the larger injectors but it's not ideal. You will only be towing 5-7k; so you can probably get away with it. My 250/100's did fine in town but going up in the mountains: it wasn't exactly happy.

How often are you going to be towing? Also, are you upgrading an E40d or do you have a ZF5?

 

Have fun towing with 300 plus horsepower and 1350 U-joints

 

@cleatus12r I have some newer spicer-blue u joints installed hoping to do the 2005 axle swap eventually, iv gotta take this one step at a time.

@INFRNL This will be the weekend warrior take trips with the family, not a daily work truck at this time. This use to be my daily for my construction business.
I rebuild some C6's before and will also be doing some smalltouch ups on the e4od this go around(new solenoids, clutches) and eventually a full rebuild down the road. the current trans should have an upgraded shift kit from way back in the day.
I am at sea level so that helps but have some plans to do some trips to the mountains, what are you currently running in your truck?

 

it's pretty much in my sig. I also have a SD rather than an OBS and my truck is a dually. I run a T4 turbo setup with 200/30's from CNC fab and a borg warner 364SXR. I have a BTS 4R100. I will most likely move these injectors to my project truck (76 F350 CC LB 7.3 ZF6) with a KC gen3 stage 1 turbo. Or i'll leave it stock with a KC turbo. I'll have to see how it runs first.

I should clarify on the mountain runs here with the 250/100's. It will get me to where i'm going but I have to run a little slower due to EGT's. Another issue is the bigger turbo that likes 1800 bare min-2200+rpms. Even empty on that setup, I get into weird situations only having 3 gears from the tranny as well as not having enough boost/ rpms for the larger turbo. Worst issues are on winding mountain roads and especially hair pin turns

I'm sure 238/80's with a KC gen3 stage 1 would do way better than my 250/100 setup...as the KC turbo spools early and super quick. Did you see the video or article where they worked on Matt''s truck from Gearhead? I think you could get away with the 238's but 160/180/ 200's would be more ideal for any towing

Eswift (Eric w/ cnc fab) has a lot of experience with different setups. He's currently running 200/30's with a KC gen3 stage 1, but he tows often. I would talk to Eric and/ or KC turbo before making a final decision. Larger injectors can be tuned down but i don't think it equates to the same performance as smaller injectors tuned up. due to the nature of the design. I could be mistaken as I don't know anything but the very minimal basics.

I originally went 250/100's because that was what Bill(PHP) recommended at the time and my use. I thought I could just use a lower power tune. I managed to get by for many years. The issues started when I went to bigger SXE turbos back in 2018.

sorry, rambled way too much. I think you could get away with either option for your use, but as i mentioned; I would consult with Eric or KC turbo before making your final decision.
I will add that the best my truck has ever done for fuel economy and near perfect performance was when I was stock with tunes. Yes, the 250/100's are fun but rare to even get to open her up and I was never happy with the excessive amounts of turbo lag...or the eye burning/ nature killing exhaust during colder months/ winter.

 

Block studded? Head job? Better rods? Balanced? HPOP and LPOP upgraded? Piston mods? This engine was never designed for that sort of power level. You need to see how far you want to push the bottom end with its parts you plan, THEN I would decide injectors. Otherwise no good answer really.

I have 205/30s but I have a manual trans dually, I went around and around about those or the 160/30s. Ended up slightly larger as they can turn down to near nothing and dump the full 205cc in the midrange. Good all around compromise for my needs, wants, and desire. I believe the 80% nozzle would unload it all at the top end, say 3500rpm or whatever.

If your trans works, rock it. If you do not have a good converter, billet cover with triple clutches and low stall, put cash there with that Sonnax spiral snap ring for the OD cyl. What shift kit is it? TG and Precision's both do pump mods, no experience with Sonnax kits, sorry. I have resealed working ZF 4HPs, slapped in a heavy duty A clutch, used a late pump, new converter, and sent them. Still fine with about 50% more power, 200rwhp to 300rwhp. Not much but still a significant jump in power from its design.

 

What he said^^^

I should have also added that I have smith bros push rods, behive springs, head studs and a colt cam (don't recommend the cam) At least i'm supposed to... and supposedly the builder did some upgrades to the valves(no details on that). Block used for the build was a 97 but has all my SD external parts obviously.

 

The build list for if I went 180/30 is beehive springs, chromoly rods, studs, new valves, fluid damper harmonic balancer, water2air intercooler, stock pistons ceramic tops, hpop, kc 300x .84 ar, php hydra, plus the full engin e rebuild. Probably missing some goodies

Once again thanks for all the insight and support for this build..

 

I have always seen the 180/30s as smoky and oil hungry, do some research. Another reason I did the 205/30s.

 

Are you planning on a separate cooling loop for the water-air intercooler? While space-efficient, if your charge air and engine share the same cooling loop, then you'll effectively end up dumping engine heat into your charge air. You'll have a temperature "floor" at 190 Fahrenheit. That KC video was done using an air-air intercooler which provides much more benefit for the cost. Note that modern water-air intercooled engines use separate cooling loops (6.7L PSD) to maintain acceptable performance under heat-soaked conditions.

 

I have a separate heart exchange for the water loop for air to water intercooler.
Also Air to air will have a larger pressure drop compared to air to water, in theory it should be more efficient.

 

It can be if it's designed that way from the bottom up; plenty of coolant capacity, large radiator and so on. That's why I said more benefit for the cost. Efficiency is a thorny topic to cover because there are so many variables. What's the tradeoff of 1psi more boost versus 10 deg cooler IAT? I couldn't tell you.

 

I was fortunate to get a killer deal on the intercooler and have a spare small radiator for heat exchanger plus a nice marco pump to circulate the fluid. I just need to fab some pipes and thinking of relocating OEM coolant reservoir to intercooler for placement, maybe go with a super duty style reservoir for engine coolant or complete aftermarket reservoir.