Hi Guys,

I have been considering a DCR conversion. I have a 2018 with 98K mi - I bought it in 2024 and everything has been fine so far. Here is my question - How many CP4's really just randomly fail? It seems that most if not all fall into the following errors - DEF in fuel tank, gas in fuel tank, water in fuel, lack of filter maintenance, lack of draining the lower filter to check for water, and air in the system from running too close to empty. We all know the CP4 tolerates none of that. I am very careful about all of the above plus I use Amsoil additive with every tank.

I understand that owners are not quick to admit it was probably their fault that they have a 15k repair bill.

It also seems that we do not hear many stories where the DPK saves the day. I think once you get serious enough to put a DPK on, you get serious about all the above maintenance.

It is hard to decide how much of the DCR push is advertising versus genuine concern. Internet Dave (I forget where his shop is) did a tear down on a CP4 with 900k mi and it was pristine. The owner was obsessive about maintenance and it shows it worked for him. Hard to know if he was just lucky or if the maintenance is the key.

Anyway, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions and stories.

 

I have 2 water separators and 3 fuel filters in my system, I run additive and have a DPK on my truck. I will be installing a DCR but it is not high on my list.
The thing with a CP4 failure on a stock truck is it is a complete fuel system not just the pump and a significant number of them are denied warranty even if the warranty is still covering the truck. The DPK keeps the damage to just a pump and a filter, and the DCR keeps it to just a pump. I have 97k on mine and the filters and DPK have been on since about 60k. There are more than a few stories of bone stock Cp4 's going a long long time one close to a million miles. I'd say lots of fear mongering due to the cost of a failure not covered under warranty or insurance. Though a DPK and an afternoon if you're handy with the wrenches is not a bad compromise between a failure and installing a DCR. Filtration gets even more in the weeds as there is more than one filtration standard and they are very conflicting if you don't do research.

 

Dave's Auto Repair in Utah.

I don't think that owner was "lucky" just very religious about maintenance.

I changed my CP4 to DCR with only 70-75k miles on my '16' just because my turbo was being replaced and all the labor was basically done to get at the fuel pump. Peace of mind if you can afford it.

 

I have almost 400K miles on my 2016 and on the original CP4. The DCR will be my next upgrade but, I’m not in a hurry to get it done.

Mike

 

the reasons you indicate as the cause of the cp4 failures is what ford wants you to believe....

if for example water was a cuase as ford says...then does that mean fords water seperator does not work...does it mean that fords water in fuel indicator does not work...operators of failed pumps are not being shown water that was drained from their tanks..nor logs thaat show they drove with water in fuel alerts...an no upgrades to water related entrampment or detection have been made.

instead..ford has secretly moved to pin'ed cp4 cups.....why would they pin the cups if the failures were water related......duh...

the real cause of cp4 failure is rotating cups....the cups rotate...wind up off axis to the cam...and the cam starts wearing into the roller bearing

all the photos I have seen of cp4 failure disassembled cp4's show evidence of rotating cups.

 

@speakerfritz it is not always due to rotating cups, these were fixed in MY2020. Ltngdrvr's 2022 CP4 grenaded in the summer of 2023 and he definitely takes care of maintenance.

 

The 922k mile 6.7 with original CP4 that looked about brand new which provides a very strong case to use fuel additives with the CP4, no matter what anyone says....

He used Ford's PM22 additive and then started using the Insane Diesel additive they sell, and which he stated he tended to overdose. I installed my S&S Gen 2 DPK in July 23 with about 107K miles or so I want to say. Truck at over 146k miles now.

I also religiously use additive. As to you Rat, yeah good move "since you were there," to install a DCR.

Me? I hope I never have to buy a DCR but if I do, I have the DPK to save the rest of the system.

 

I have certainly heard that by the time you see the water in fuel light, it is too late. And it is not so easy to know you are getting good fuel. I always try to go to the busiest diesel stations, but sometimes you have to take what is available. I am probably going to get the DCR and do it myself - a bit pissed I did not buy it before the huge price hike.

 

Me personally, but any else reading this: YMMV, I use K100 religiously and have seen/tested to see what it does to water if present. I do NOT worry about a WIF light nor do I check my factory water separator in my DFCM by draining it.

DISCLAIMER: This is not a statement that K100D is "the best" nor am I saying that. All I'm saying is what it does and that I use it.

Folks get testy about two things; engine oil (and oil filters) and fuel additives. I have been called out for "saying that K100 is the best," paraphrasing here, but I have never nor will I ever. I just use it and do not have a relationship with K100, now owned by the Husky Corporation which does fueling equipment.

I found it in the local Advance Auto store when a worker recommended it. I now buy it at NAPA.

What it does is put water, if present, into permanent solution by breaking water down at the molecular level and encapsulates it with a burnable organic compound. The molecules then go to the combustion chamber to harmlessly burned off. Its a fuel system cleaner, anti-gel, fuel stabilizer and puts alphaltenes back into solution in the fuel which are created by high heat and pressure.

You kind of nailed it there with the statement that you really don't know if you buying good fuel or not Because I like to say, you really cannot stick your head into the tank and see if the fuel is fresh and if there is water at the bottom of the tank.

Do I believe I am buying good fuel? I do... that said, I also believe the K100 is doing its thing because I let my truck tell me when to change oil -- at 7k ish or so -- and every third oil change by the max OCI mileage of 22.5k, the primary filter comes out looking good and light tan, not dark brown or black which would indicate alphaltenes presence on the filter. I also monitor my primary fuel pressure on my primary iDash unit.

From my last change this year.


Because of my religious use of additive, I believe my CP4 will go out much further. I hope I never have to buy a DCR but if I do, S&S DPK will save my fuel system and I'll buy a DCR to get installed.

That's the way I see it and how I do it... any questions, just ask. I'm no expert. I just read a lot and have personal experience with this stuff...

 

I've been around the 6.7L engine since they came out in April 2010. I build schools and often have 70 workers on a job. I see a lot of pickup trucks come and go over 15 years. I personally only know one individual that had a CP4 fail. He worked for an earth moving company and had a fuel tank in the bed of his truck for filling tack hoes, dozers, etc. I suspect he probably ran the occassional red fuel from his transfer tank. He admits he ran 110,000 miles and never changed the fuel filter.

Numbers I've seen posted ( absolute hearsay, because I can't show you the source) suggest that the CP4 has about a 6% failure rate in all applications. In Ford trucks where it has a Lift pump to provide pressurized fuel to the pump,. They claim a 1% failure. Times that by the 30,000 trucks Ford builds every month for the past 15 years, Means there are around 5 1/2 million CP4 out there and at a 1% failure. You'd see 54,000 failed pumps. Add in the Water in Fuel, DEF in Fuel, Gas in Fuel, and other causes. It's enough failures to make the news. And definitely enough motivation for 3rd party companies to make products that protect against failiures.

I notice a rash of failures following winter cold streaks. When un-expected cold moves over sections of the country, where they possibly don't Winterize the fuel as much as northern states. No satistics. but the noise on the internet just seems to suggest. That owners get Gelled fuel, Starve their CP4 and it fails. Or they add Emergency Anti-Gel additives that has Alcohol in it, to de-gel their fuel and their pumps fails in the next few months. Avoid ever letting your fuel gel. If you get caught in sudden cold and get Gelled fuel. Bring it indoors and thaw it out and change out all the filters before starting.

Buy good fuel, from stations that have high turn over. I'd avoid fuel from private tanks. I knew a man that bought a years worth of diesel at a time and stored it in a 600 gallon tank out back. Because he got bulk pricing and probably avoided road tax buying it that way. He would fill his little Nissan diesel pickup with fuel once a week. I think that is just asking for trouble with the CP4.

If you avoid these kind of senerios, you stand a good chance of not having a failure. In my case, I've owned 5 Superduties with 6.7L engines over the past 15 years. I've driven over 1/2 million miles on those trucks with out a failure. If I had spent $2,500-$3,000 per truck to install a new fuel pump, I'd have spent well over $12,000. I look at what I could paid in preventing a CP4 failure and think I've saved enough that if it does happen, I'm ahead. That's much easier to say once I've saved and invested that money. Much harder for a young man that just bought his first truck and has a failure he has no idea how he will pay to fix.

 

I had a pretty good amount of water in my fuel filter DFCM housing soon after hurricane Harvey flooded the gulf coast. Drained it a couple of times until there was no more water and haven't had any issues thereafter.

 

There’s room for loads more water when the WIF light comes on. Here in Europe I never have any water, but the WIF light is triggered by rain. WD40 chases it away, but I really need a new pigtail.

 

My opinion of the CP4's pretty much mimic what has already been said. It seems to be a lot of hype, based on a real problem. Absolutely, there have been some that failed. There has been users here on this site that have had a failed CP4 pump. Saying that, I personally know of no one that has actually had an actual CP4 failure. The closest I have come is my aunt... she had a 6.7 and absolutely knew nothing about it. She came out of a gas station one day (not from fueling up) and found diesel running out from under the motor onto the ground. She had it towed in to a nearby Ford service shop and they claimed it needed a new motor. She has no idea what the issue was, and likely didn't understand the maintenance service required on it. But, no idea what was the problem... so I can't say it was the CP4. And even if it were, I still wouldn't say it was truly a faulty CP4...

Saying that, I believe a couple of things happen:

1. The Ram/GM guys love to point to the CP4 because FORD SUCKS! (Saying that, lets not forget, Ford has been many times more successful implementing the CP4 than either of them... so yeah...) This gets repeated so much though that it becomes an absolute (internet) truth, and that's all the uninformed people actually know, and it's the end of the subject. Period!

2. Lack of maintenance or carelessness:

• Awareness: First off, anything other than diesel in the fuel tank is very likely to be disastrous, and when folks put DEF or gas in the wrong tank, that is not the pumps fault. Also, US diesel fuel is not to the same spec as European fuel. With that in mind, we can choose to use fuel additives to help with lubricity (and other specs). Sure, it is hard to figure out what is snake oil, and what isn't (and many say that they are all just snake oil) so this is up to the user to decide if they want to use additives or not, and then which one. But we should also be aware of gelling... for folks in the cold, at the very least, an anti-gelling additive should be used. And last but not least, while we can never know what we are putting into our tanks, we absolutely can try to avoid those little fuel stops that no one ever uses and try to go to stations that have a lot of traffic.
• And proper fuel filter change intervals are very important. Even if all the above is done, filters don't last forever... and eventually, they will let you know!

3. Actual failures. Separating failed CP4 pumps out can't really be done. CP4's are used in multiple applications, and there are lots of reasons for failures... I would wager, most of them are more so tied to user error rather than a true, failure. Saying that, name any one item that has never had a failure. It can't be done! All things are man made. Even if they are made by a machine, those are programmed by man, and use parts that also wear out and tolerances/specs never stay exact forever. But, as @Painted Horse pointed out, the number of true failures is likely a very, very small percentage. But, like anything else, the CP4 can still fail on any one of us, even when doing all the right things, and the fact is, it will to some of us. As will any other part, on any other motor, from any other company. Eventually.

But, thankfully, there are now additional components that we can install to even go beyond proper maintenance and being aware of the fuel systems and how to keep it at it's "best." The easiest is a DPK. These aren't that expensive, and if I can install one with only Youtube and help from forums like this, than most others can too. Of course it's important to also understand that a DPK won't prevent a CP4 from failing, but it will save the rest of your fuel system if it does fail. And in this case, or if you just want to go full preventative from the beginning, the DCR pump is now available and will completely replace the CP4. So no CP4 to even worry about...

I think that just like with anything we own, we should do or due diligence to understand what we have and how to care for it. That doesn't mean that we must go to and get an engineering degree, but information is now easily available and all we have to do is look for it. The hard part is filtering through it all... like I said, there is the internet truth, and then there is actual, factual, truth and understanding. Internet forums like these are filled with both, but when we take a little time it gets easier to sort through it all and find that there are users here that are actually helpful. Just my $0.02...

 

Thanks all - very helpful. It is very difficult sorting through the stories and the fear mongering. You all have confirmed what I had been thinking - it is a very low probability problem that happens to cost a lot. Since I will likely keep my truck for a long time, I think it makes sense to get rid of the worry. I am putting it on the back burner though.

I still have my 2006 that is in the sig - my son has it now. Still runs great. Spent a lot "bulletproofing" it but it has been fairly maintenance free for the last decade. Main issue now is rust. That is why I moved up to the Alumi-Duty

 

At the very least you can get the DPK to prevent the rest of the fuel system from getting contaminated IF the pump were to go...

As to rust, check out Chassis Saver paint... great stuff to be sure.