No Crank
Thread Starter
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
No Crank
I have a 2016 F-350 6.2L with a 6R100.
It has had a problem that occurs once every couple of months, but it is now happening all the time. Sometimes it won't crank. When I turn the key, nothing happens. When it's happened in the past, I got the spare key and it fired right up. That made me think it was a PATS problem. This time that didn't work. Neither key will make it crank.
While troubleshooting this problem, I found that there is no fuse in the PATS location, so I've ruled out PATS as a possibility.
I've checked the PCM fuse by pulling the fuse and measuring the resistance across the fuse. Zero ohms.
The battery shows 12.5 volts, and I've tried jumping it, too. No difference.
I connected my Forscan, which I've used to read codes on this truck in the past. It now tells me it can't read the codes. It finds all of the modules, but can't read the codes.
The PRNDL display is now blank, there is no indication where the shifter is. I suspect that means the PCM isn't seeing the TRS. No TRS input, no crank;. The dash display has now shown a START SYSTEM ERROR.
Any Ideas? I'm out of them.
It has had a problem that occurs once every couple of months, but it is now happening all the time. Sometimes it won't crank. When I turn the key, nothing happens. When it's happened in the past, I got the spare key and it fired right up. That made me think it was a PATS problem. This time that didn't work. Neither key will make it crank.
While troubleshooting this problem, I found that there is no fuse in the PATS location, so I've ruled out PATS as a possibility.
I've checked the PCM fuse by pulling the fuse and measuring the resistance across the fuse. Zero ohms.
The battery shows 12.5 volts, and I've tried jumping it, too. No difference.
I connected my Forscan, which I've used to read codes on this truck in the past. It now tells me it can't read the codes. It finds all of the modules, but can't read the codes.
The PRNDL display is now blank, there is no indication where the shifter is. I suspect that means the PCM isn't seeing the TRS. No TRS input, no crank;. The dash display has now shown a START SYSTEM ERROR.
Any Ideas? I'm out of them.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,362
Likes: 593
From: Amarillo, TEXAS!
I have a 2016 F-350 6.2L with a 6R100.
It has had a problem that occurs once every couple of months, but it is now happening all the time. Sometimes it won't crank. When I turn the key, nothing happens. When it's happened in the past, I got the spare key and it fired right up. That made me think it was a PATS problem. This time that didn't work. Neither key will make it crank.
While troubleshooting this problem, I found that there is no fuse in the PATS location, so I've ruled out PATS as a possibility.
I've checked the PCM fuse by pulling the fuse and measuring the resistance across the fuse. Zero ohms.
The battery shows 12.5 volts, and I've tried jumping it, too. No difference.
I connected my Forscan, which I've used to read codes on this truck in the past. It now tells me it can't read the codes. It finds all of the modules, but can't read the codes.
The PRNDL display is now blank, there is no indication where the shifter is. I suspect that means the PCM isn't seeing the TRS. No TRS input, no crank;. The dash display has now shown a START SYSTEM ERROR.
Any Ideas? I'm out of them.
It has had a problem that occurs once every couple of months, but it is now happening all the time. Sometimes it won't crank. When I turn the key, nothing happens. When it's happened in the past, I got the spare key and it fired right up. That made me think it was a PATS problem. This time that didn't work. Neither key will make it crank.
While troubleshooting this problem, I found that there is no fuse in the PATS location, so I've ruled out PATS as a possibility.
I've checked the PCM fuse by pulling the fuse and measuring the resistance across the fuse. Zero ohms.
The battery shows 12.5 volts, and I've tried jumping it, too. No difference.
I connected my Forscan, which I've used to read codes on this truck in the past. It now tells me it can't read the codes. It finds all of the modules, but can't read the codes.
The PRNDL display is now blank, there is no indication where the shifter is. I suspect that means the PCM isn't seeing the TRS. No TRS input, no crank;. The dash display has now shown a START SYSTEM ERROR.
Any Ideas? I'm out of them.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 264
Does Forscan ID your truck or does it fail and you load a saved profile? To me it sounds like your pcm isn’t online being either power issue or CAN bus issue.
Edit: A quick tell tail if the PCM is communicating is your odometer will show up, if the PCM isn’t talking then the odometer will show - - - - - -
Edit: A quick tell tail if the PCM is communicating is your odometer will show up, if the PCM isn’t talking then the odometer will show - - - - - -
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,258
Likes: 768
From: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by ifrythings
Does Forscan ID your truck or does it fail and you load a saved profile? To me it sounds like your pcm isn’t online being either power issue or CAN bus issue.
Edit: A quick tell tail if the PCM is communicating is your odometer will show up, if the PCM isn’t talking then the odometer will show - - - - - -
Edit: A quick tell tail if the PCM is communicating is your odometer will show up, if the PCM isn’t talking then the odometer will show - - - - - -
I would also run the KOEO electrical test and see what it tells you. You may also have to probe some connectors at the PCM and see if there's a short somewhere or possibly a broken wire.
Check the grounds on the body in the engine bay as well.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 1,082
From: St Louis
If the IPC is displaying "STARTING SYSTEM FAULT" during a starting attempt, then PATS failed to prove out. That said, it must be determined if PATS failure is a primary event or if it is secondary to something else that failed upstream of PATS.
That you are experiencing an inability to read the fault codes with Forscan suggests an "upstream" (from PATS) issue. PCM or HS-CAN network issues would be where I would start my digging. Several overnight posters gave good tips.
That you are experiencing an inability to read the fault codes with Forscan suggests an "upstream" (from PATS) issue. PCM or HS-CAN network issues would be where I would start my digging. Several overnight posters gave good tips.
Thread Starter
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
Forscan can find the modules, but there is no PATS module. And the location in the fusebox for a PATS module fuse is empty, and has been since I bought this truck in April, 2024. So I think it does not have PATS. When I was at Ford, only the high end Superdutys had PATS. The lowly XL models, like my truck, did not have it.
Forscan cannot run KOEO. It says test failed.
The odometer does read. The trip odometers are just dashes. They worked when the truck ran.
Forscan cannot run KOEO. It says test failed.
The odometer does read. The trip odometers are just dashes. They worked when the truck ran.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 264
The PATS transceiver is powered with the cluster, PATS programming is in the BCM, since 08 every truck had PATS except a few special built ones. Your truck will have PATS.
If you do a code scan do most of the modules have Uxxxx codes and complaining that they lost communication with the PCM?
To me it really sounds like either your PCM isn’t powering up or you have a CAN bus issue to the PCM. If you disconnect the battery and measure between pins 6 and 14 on the OBD2 port, do you get 60 ohms or 120 ohms? A common area for issue is the large electrical plug above the e-brake gets poor connections in it, reseating the plug a few times usually resolves this. The other area is the large electrical plug on the drivers side spring tower can have the same issue also.
If you do a code scan do most of the modules have Uxxxx codes and complaining that they lost communication with the PCM?
To me it really sounds like either your PCM isn’t powering up or you have a CAN bus issue to the PCM. If you disconnect the battery and measure between pins 6 and 14 on the OBD2 port, do you get 60 ohms or 120 ohms? A common area for issue is the large electrical plug above the e-brake gets poor connections in it, reseating the plug a few times usually resolves this. The other area is the large electrical plug on the drivers side spring tower can have the same issue also.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,768
Likes: 1,082
From: St Louis
Well, PATS was finally integrated in to the Super Duty truck line starting with the 2008 model year. It was present in pretty much everything else Ford built since the mid to late 90s.
Thread Starter
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
When I was releasing the software for production for all 6.0L Superduty and Excursions from 2003-2005 only the Harley Edition and Excursions had PATS.
Thread Starter
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
IT RUNS!!!!!
This morning, I found that plug above the e-brake and unplugged and replugged it several times. I also found the plug under the hood, but the coolant bottle blocks it, so I couldn't unplug it without disassembling more things. I put that one off for now. I connected the battery and it fired right up!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 264
I got 0.00 ohms
I had the battery disconnected overnight.
This morning, I found that plug above the e-brake and unplugged and replugged it several times. I also found the plug under the hood, but the coolant bottle blocks it, so I couldn't unplug it without disassembling more things. I put that one off for now. I connected the battery and it fired right up!
I had the battery disconnected overnight.
This morning, I found that plug above the e-brake and unplugged and replugged it several times. I also found the plug under the hood, but the coolant bottle blocks it, so I couldn't unplug it without disassembling more things. I put that one off for now. I connected the battery and it fired right up!
Glad you got it going, you should be able to read codes properly now with forscan, I’m not sure why these electrical plugs end up having issues like this. I think the pins have either the wrong plating that allows them to tarnish and have bad connections which is fixed when reseating the connector several times to scrape away the tarnish or the pins have to low of a contact pressure or both maybe.
Thread Starter
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,739
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
I am going to measure the CAN bus pins again. I did read 0, but I may have a problem with the DVM.
My guess as to the problem in the connector, and it's just a guess, is that Ford cost reduced the pins in the connector. They might have gone with a different plating on the pins that cost less, but doesn't last as long. This truck was built 10 years ago, and durability testing at Ford (or probably any other manufacturer) doesn't last 10 years.
My guess as to the problem in the connector, and it's just a guess, is that Ford cost reduced the pins in the connector. They might have gone with a different plating on the pins that cost less, but doesn't last as long. This truck was built 10 years ago, and durability testing at Ford (or probably any other manufacturer) doesn't last 10 years.