Towing Equipment Question
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 221
Likes: 84
Towing Equipment Question
I have a question for you guys that have towing knowledge:
I run a small side business doing field mowing an excavation work. I started the business with my dump truck in my signature, a 18ft 9900lb equipment trailer and a tractor that weighs approximately 5500lbs fully loaded with attachments. Been pulling this set up with the F450 without an issue. This year I bought a mini excavator (John Deere 35D) that weighs 7800lbs. I tow with the same trailer.
Now the trailer scales at 2100 lbs and with the excavator I'm at exactly the GVWR of the trailer. Actually a little over with tie down equipment, so say 100lbs overweight. But I'm not including the tongue weight. Should I be counting the tongue weight on the truck? I load it a little heavy on the truck, as it tows nice when there is 1000+ pounds on the truck. By counting the weight loaded onto the truck, my axle weights and overall GCWR are legal. I notice many travel trailers rely on the tongue weight, as the axles alone are not enough to handle the full loaded weight. Or am I comparing apples to oranges?
Ancillary information: I have a brake controller and it is set up correctly and stops the load perfectly. The trailer was new in 2019, made by Quality Steel and Aluminum Trailers and in very good condition. This year I upgraded the tires to a Cooper Tire with a proper capacity (2800lbs) which were a little higher than the originals. The hitch is a 20K lbs Pintle with a welded plate on the frame of the truck. The truck frame will fail before the hitch.
I wish I could step up to a 14K lb trailer, but that would put the combination over GCWR for a CDL.I would love to get some opinions from the group here. Especially if there are ways to optimize my current set-up.
I run a small side business doing field mowing an excavation work. I started the business with my dump truck in my signature, a 18ft 9900lb equipment trailer and a tractor that weighs approximately 5500lbs fully loaded with attachments. Been pulling this set up with the F450 without an issue. This year I bought a mini excavator (John Deere 35D) that weighs 7800lbs. I tow with the same trailer.
Now the trailer scales at 2100 lbs and with the excavator I'm at exactly the GVWR of the trailer. Actually a little over with tie down equipment, so say 100lbs overweight. But I'm not including the tongue weight. Should I be counting the tongue weight on the truck? I load it a little heavy on the truck, as it tows nice when there is 1000+ pounds on the truck. By counting the weight loaded onto the truck, my axle weights and overall GCWR are legal. I notice many travel trailers rely on the tongue weight, as the axles alone are not enough to handle the full loaded weight. Or am I comparing apples to oranges?
Ancillary information: I have a brake controller and it is set up correctly and stops the load perfectly. The trailer was new in 2019, made by Quality Steel and Aluminum Trailers and in very good condition. This year I upgraded the tires to a Cooper Tire with a proper capacity (2800lbs) which were a little higher than the originals. The hitch is a 20K lbs Pintle with a welded plate on the frame of the truck. The truck frame will fail before the hitch.
I wish I could step up to a 14K lb trailer, but that would put the combination over GCWR for a CDL.I would love to get some opinions from the group here. Especially if there are ways to optimize my current set-up.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 410
The best thing to do is crawl under and see what axles are on your trailer. There will be some type of sticker on it. My travel trailer has 2 3500# axles, and is actually way overkill, not the norm for a 21' trailer. Keep in mind, you really need the tongue weight as part of the anti-sway. You load it rear heavy, it will be like a tail wagging a dog and get dangerous real fast.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 700
Likes: 478
I have no experience with that brand trailer but for most of the name brand stuff ive shopped over the years most 9,990lb equipment and dump trailers are just the derated version of the 12,000lb trailer in their lineup using two 6,000lb axles. Verify what you have for axles to be sure, either build sticker or axles should be labelled. Its a mixed bag as far as axles and gvwr for equipment trailers. Some take into account the 10% tongue weight and fit lighter axles and others fit axles that match the gvwr. Either is appropriate as you should have a minimum of 10% on the tongue and never 100% on the trailer axles.
As far as the load, all the weight is on the trailer frame no matter what portion is supported by the truck axle. If the trailer frame is a true 9,990lb build id look for a 12,000lb trailer and just derate it to stay under cdl but have some extra cushion for capacity. Take a ride through the lot you bought your trailer and compare it to the 12,000lb model if they sell one? It will be obvious if your 9,990lb is a lesser build or is just the derated version of the higher gvwr trailer.
I run 12k trailers for 3 ton equipment and use F250s to stay under cdl for my crew. Not saying you should change your whole operation but a 10,000gvwr F250 and 14,000lb or 16,000lb dump trailer is far cheaper to operate than an F450 and can haul much more. I run a Kioti 25hp with 6ft brush hog, it hangs out the back of my 16ft dump trailer but legal, my JCB 35z and 48z mini fit in the trailer. Just an option if you dont want to go the cdl rout but do end up growing into larger equipment.
As far as the load, all the weight is on the trailer frame no matter what portion is supported by the truck axle. If the trailer frame is a true 9,990lb build id look for a 12,000lb trailer and just derate it to stay under cdl but have some extra cushion for capacity. Take a ride through the lot you bought your trailer and compare it to the 12,000lb model if they sell one? It will be obvious if your 9,990lb is a lesser build or is just the derated version of the higher gvwr trailer.
I run 12k trailers for 3 ton equipment and use F250s to stay under cdl for my crew. Not saying you should change your whole operation but a 10,000gvwr F250 and 14,000lb or 16,000lb dump trailer is far cheaper to operate than an F450 and can haul much more. I run a Kioti 25hp with 6ft brush hog, it hangs out the back of my 16ft dump trailer but legal, my JCB 35z and 48z mini fit in the trailer. Just an option if you dont want to go the cdl rout but do end up growing into larger equipment.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 111
Likes: 71
Now the trailer scales at 2100 lbs and with the excavator I'm at exactly the GVWR of the trailer. Actually a little over with tie down equipment, so say 100lbs overweight. But I'm not including the tongue weight. Should I be counting the tongue weight on the truck? I load it a little heavy on the truck, as it tows nice when there is 1000+ pounds on the truck. By counting the weight loaded onto the truck, my axle weights and overall GCWR are legal. I notice many travel trailers rely on the tongue weight, as the axles alone are not enough to handle the full loaded weight. Or am I comparing apples to oranges?
- tire ratings
- axle ratings
- vehicle GVWR
- registered weight
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 221
Likes: 84
Thank you for your input guys!
My trailer is built as a 12K trailer with 5000lb axles. I have confirmed the axles and the trailer looks to be built like the 12 or 14k models, minus the eight lug wheels. I see what you are saying as some trailers look as if they are a 7000lb car carrier with bigger wheels and tires.
Skid Mark - Thank you, this is where I was getting confused. I'd pass the test on three of the four criteria you listed. But unhooking with the load on helps to explain why I'm overweight. There are easy and difficult ways to reduce weight on the excavator and trailer. Easy is to simply remove the bucket and strap it in the bed of the truck. That may be enough, but I'd want to scale the whole rig to be sure. Going further may include, plastic fenders, remove the counter weight on the machine, remove center boards on the trailer, remove the ramps, etc.
Or, maybe this is enough of a push to finally get my Class A CDL and buy the trailer I want (a 24 foot 14k lbs deck over).
My trailer is built as a 12K trailer with 5000lb axles. I have confirmed the axles and the trailer looks to be built like the 12 or 14k models, minus the eight lug wheels. I see what you are saying as some trailers look as if they are a 7000lb car carrier with bigger wheels and tires.
Skid Mark - Thank you, this is where I was getting confused. I'd pass the test on three of the four criteria you listed. But unhooking with the load on helps to explain why I'm overweight. There are easy and difficult ways to reduce weight on the excavator and trailer. Easy is to simply remove the bucket and strap it in the bed of the truck. That may be enough, but I'd want to scale the whole rig to be sure. Going further may include, plastic fenders, remove the counter weight on the machine, remove center boards on the trailer, remove the ramps, etc.
Or, maybe this is enough of a push to finally get my Class A CDL and buy the trailer I want (a 24 foot 14k lbs deck over).
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