Bad Power Steering
New User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: bascom usa
Bad Power Steering
I have a 2001 F-350 CC DRW Powerstroke. When you have your foot on the brakes at a stand still you can't turn the steering wheel! I even tried with both arms and still couldn't. I've had my truck in the shop three times, the first time basically told me I was nuts, the second time they put in a new powersteering pump and hydroboost, and now it is still in there for the third time. This truck only has 18,000 miles. They also told me that there was a service bultin that it is common to have hard steering at a stand still. But if I wanted to have bad steering I would bought an old beater truck not a 40,000 dollar truck
More Turbo
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
From: Oregon USA
Bad Power Steering
It is comon to be kind of hard. but mine will turn the 35's easly with one hand... Sorry im no help for ya. good luck!!!
Justin
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=9313&.jpg
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2002 F-350 SC LB 4X4 6SPD PSD. 3.73 gears. 2.5" leviling kit. K&N air filter. Rhino lined Bed. Prodigy trailer brake controler. 35x12.5x16.5 BFG A/T. 16.5x10 ultra wheels. pop up gooseneck hitch and firestone airbag spring helpers. Reese fifth wheel hitch for my new toy hauler. Superchips microtuner.
My imagenary friend thinks you have a mental problem
Justin
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=9313&.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/dukesofhazzard/dukeslogo.JPG
2002 F-350 SC LB 4X4 6SPD PSD. 3.73 gears. 2.5" leviling kit. K&N air filter. Rhino lined Bed. Prodigy trailer brake controler. 35x12.5x16.5 BFG A/T. 16.5x10 ultra wheels. pop up gooseneck hitch and firestone airbag spring helpers. Reese fifth wheel hitch for my new toy hauler. Superchips microtuner.
My imagenary friend thinks you have a mental problem
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 305
Likes: 20
From: North Padre Island, TX
Bad Power Steering
I had the same prob on my 02 F-350. I was told by ford that this is due to the fact that the power steering runs off of the brake line's fluid. There is not a seperate pump for both. Therefore, with your foot on the brake the pump is already being worked hard and the power steering begins to fade. If I hit my brakes hard, I too cannot turn the wheel.
The mechanics gave me the keys to four superdutys and had me try the same thing with them, all brand new. All four trucks were the same. If i hit the brakes hard the steering wheel would not turn.
This is only true at idle when the truck is not moving. No problems while in normal operation.
Hope this helps, however it does seem they could've come up with something a little better. I have found this to be a little frustrating while offroading especially where there are steep grades and you have to keep you foot on the brake, even when stopped.
The mechanics gave me the keys to four superdutys and had me try the same thing with them, all brand new. All four trucks were the same. If i hit the brakes hard the steering wheel would not turn.
This is only true at idle when the truck is not moving. No problems while in normal operation.
Hope this helps, however it does seem they could've come up with something a little better. I have found this to be a little frustrating while offroading especially where there are steep grades and you have to keep you foot on the brake, even when stopped.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,742
Likes: 8
From: OK
Bad Power Steering
>I had the same prob on my 02 F-350. I was told by ford that
>this is due to the fact that the power steering runs off of
>the brake line's fluid. There is not a seperate pump for
>both. Therefore, with your foot on the brake the pump is
>already being worked hard and the power steering begins to
>fade. If I hit my brakes hard, I too cannot turn the wheel.
>
This answer is totally BOGUS... at least for 4WD trucks. I've owned two trucks both with V10 which has a separate vacuum assist brake system (vs the PSD hydroboost system). BOTH trucks exhibited the same loss of steering at idle/low speeds and foot on the brake. Makes maneuvering a trailer a real PITA. Best explanation I've seen is that the steering geometry of the solid front axle is to blame. Doubtful that Ford will ever correct this problem.
>this is due to the fact that the power steering runs off of
>the brake line's fluid. There is not a seperate pump for
>both. Therefore, with your foot on the brake the pump is
>already being worked hard and the power steering begins to
>fade. If I hit my brakes hard, I too cannot turn the wheel.
>
This answer is totally BOGUS... at least for 4WD trucks. I've owned two trucks both with V10 which has a separate vacuum assist brake system (vs the PSD hydroboost system). BOTH trucks exhibited the same loss of steering at idle/low speeds and foot on the brake. Makes maneuvering a trailer a real PITA. Best explanation I've seen is that the steering geometry of the solid front axle is to blame. Doubtful that Ford will ever correct this problem.
Tuned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
From: Fort Fun
Bad Power Steering
All due respect NOMO, but in my dufus experience, I don't see how the axle geometry is to blame. I always back into my driveway and in doing so have my wheel full lock to the left. I regularly have to start rolling (i.e. let my foot off the brake) to get the wheel to turn. I may have only moved an inch or so but the brakes are off so I think I buy the brake assist answer. I wouldn't put it past Ford (or any other mfg) to econmise that way. I think it is the wrong place to economise, but that is another story.
I will check with some buddies that work at Ford and see if I can get a decent answer.
In fact, I have to run an errand right now. I will experiment with turning the wheel with and without brakes (sitting still) just to see. Don't expect me to publish my protocol in APA format, but I will let you know how it goes
Big
2000 F250 SD SC 5.4L Gasser
4.10s 4x4 L/S rearend
Western 7'6" plow
White with parchment cloth
I will check with some buddies that work at Ford and see if I can get a decent answer.
In fact, I have to run an errand right now. I will experiment with turning the wheel with and without brakes (sitting still) just to see. Don't expect me to publish my protocol in APA format, but I will let you know how it goes
Big
2000 F250 SD SC 5.4L Gasser
4.10s 4x4 L/S rearend
Western 7'6" plow
White with parchment cloth
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,859
Likes: 7
From: USA
Bad Power Steering
Guys ! I'm gonna add my old $.02 since ,I've been around since we didn't have power steering.
I was taught driving old rigs an newer cars and trucks, to not try turning the wheel unless you are slightly moving with light braking action.This relieves the strain on power steering components and steering linkage.Also scrub on tires,yes granted there are times when your in a tight spot you need too.
Nomo ! is refering to pitman arm ,its angle is not maxed to create the leverage to overcome the resistance in the steering ,this was done by design, more than likely to prevent steering component failures and pump
failures. the other adding factor's are added weight of diesel and bigger tires.
Just my old fart $.02
Rich
02 F250 4x4 SC 5.4v8 6spd 3.73ls Trueblue/Silver and Chrome Nerfs
"All Levers"
I was taught driving old rigs an newer cars and trucks, to not try turning the wheel unless you are slightly moving with light braking action.This relieves the strain on power steering components and steering linkage.Also scrub on tires,yes granted there are times when your in a tight spot you need too.
Nomo ! is refering to pitman arm ,its angle is not maxed to create the leverage to overcome the resistance in the steering ,this was done by design, more than likely to prevent steering component failures and pump
failures. the other adding factor's are added weight of diesel and bigger tires.
Just my old fart $.02
Rich
02 F250 4x4 SC 5.4v8 6spd 3.73ls Trueblue/Silver and Chrome Nerfs
"All Levers"
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: san diego usa
Bad Power Steering
Nomo is correct, and what he is talking about is this: the tire's contact patch is located outboard of the centerline of the knuckle's ball joints. That means when you turn the steering wheel, one tire has to roll forward, the other backward. With the brakes applied, the wheels obviously aren't going to turn, so you won't be able to steer. It's just a drawback of the steering geometry, and yeah it sucks.
Wide wheels/tires with high offset will make the problem even worse. If you have a big enough ps pump, it might allow you to steer with brakes applied but you'll be dragging the tires.
I have a detroit locker in my front axle, and when it locks, I can't turn my steering wheel even with my foot OFF the brakes unless I start rolling... it's the kinda the same thing, since the wheels can only turn together in the same direction. That sucks too.
Wide wheels/tires with high offset will make the problem even worse. If you have a big enough ps pump, it might allow you to steer with brakes applied but you'll be dragging the tires.
I have a detroit locker in my front axle, and when it locks, I can't turn my steering wheel even with my foot OFF the brakes unless I start rolling... it's the kinda the same thing, since the wheels can only turn together in the same direction. That sucks too.
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Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
Bad Power Steering
>Nomo is correct, and what he is talking about is this: the
>tire's contact patch is located outboard of the centerline
>of the knuckle's ball joints. That means when you turn the
>steering wheel, one tire has to roll forward, the other
>backward. With the brakes applied, the wheels obviously
>aren't going to turn, so you won't be able to steer. It's
>just a drawback of the steering geometry, and yeah it sucks.
LW555. Great explanation.
I've been trying to get this point across to people for a while, this condition is inherent in the design of the front axle and steering geometry. It is not in any way related to the power steering system, you have the brakes locked and they are far more powerful than the power steering pump. No amount of work done to the power steering pump will cure this.
Try only applying minimal pressure on the brakes when attempting low speed manouevers. The amount the wheels have to rotate is very small, and shouldn't prevent manouevering in tight spaces.
Waxy
>tire's contact patch is located outboard of the centerline
>of the knuckle's ball joints. That means when you turn the
>steering wheel, one tire has to roll forward, the other
>backward. With the brakes applied, the wheels obviously
>aren't going to turn, so you won't be able to steer. It's
>just a drawback of the steering geometry, and yeah it sucks.
LW555. Great explanation.
I've been trying to get this point across to people for a while, this condition is inherent in the design of the front axle and steering geometry. It is not in any way related to the power steering system, you have the brakes locked and they are far more powerful than the power steering pump. No amount of work done to the power steering pump will cure this.
Try only applying minimal pressure on the brakes when attempting low speed manouevers. The amount the wheels have to rotate is very small, and shouldn't prevent manouevering in tight spaces.
Waxy
LW555, you mentioned using a larger PS pump...what pump would you recommend?
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: san diego usa
Bad Power Steering
Thanks Waxy & Nomo!
Steve, I know that AGR makes an aftermarket pump and I've heard some good things about it. I think they even have a kit so that it will bolt up right to the Superduties.
Steve, I know that AGR makes an aftermarket pump and I've heard some good things about it. I think they even have a kit so that it will bolt up right to the Superduties.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 2
Bad Power Steering
>Guys ! I'm gonna add my old $.02 since ,I've been around
>since we didn't have power steering.
>
>I was taught driving old rigs an newer cars and trucks, to
>not try turning the wheel unless you are slightly moving
>with light braking action.This relieves the strain on power
>steering components and steering linkage.Also scrub on
>tires,yes granted there are times when your in a tight spot
>you need too.
Damn,
I guess that means I'm old too
.
FWIW,I am in the habit of always getting a little tire rolling going before I steer and don't force the steering unless necessary.It does harken back to the days of non assisted steering.It lessens wear your steering gear,such as,tie rods,steering gearbox,etc...
Good point Forty!
>since we didn't have power steering.
>
>I was taught driving old rigs an newer cars and trucks, to
>not try turning the wheel unless you are slightly moving
>with light braking action.This relieves the strain on power
>steering components and steering linkage.Also scrub on
>tires,yes granted there are times when your in a tight spot
>you need too.
Damn,
I guess that means I'm old too
.FWIW,I am in the habit of always getting a little tire rolling going before I steer and don't force the steering unless necessary.It does harken back to the days of non assisted steering.It lessens wear your steering gear,such as,tie rods,steering gearbox,etc...
Good point Forty!
New User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: accord usa
Bad Power Steering
wrong ,wrong , wrong the steering on the f350s locks even while on jacks with wheels in the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they also lock on my truck while the abs is engaged at 60mph in the rain while towing with lots of rear weight!
Tuned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
From: Fort Fun
Bad Power Steering
I agree that LW555 has a good explanation. Sounds reasonable. I guess the only way to really ckeck it out is to put the truck on jack stands, block the rear wheels and try to turn the wheel with the foot on the brakes and off. That would settle it for me.
Not that I am going to do it though. It is too cold out right now!
2000 F250 SD SC 5.4L Gasser
4.10s 4x4 L/S rearend
Western 7'6" plow
White with parchment cloth
Not that I am going to do it though. It is too cold out right now!
2000 F250 SD SC 5.4L Gasser
4.10s 4x4 L/S rearend
Western 7'6" plow
White with parchment cloth