Improved CP4.2 Pump?
Thread Starter
|
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,937
Likes: 2,651
From: The Great State of Texas
Improved CP4.2 Pump?
So been hearing some rumbling about the upcoming 2025 6.7 Cummins and that it is supposed to receive a new improved HPFP. Well, that new pump looks like a CP4.2 pump so now I'm interested what improvements were made, since this version of the CP4.2 could possibly be implemented by Ford.
Enjoy...
Enjoy...
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,880
Likes: 9,172
From: Western NY
Nice post Troy... I'll have to watch when I get a chance.
I'd really like to have a grasp of percentage wise, which will never happen as Ford holds them close, of the amount of failures of CP4s.
While I acknowledge this can happen early on in an engines life to far out to hundreds of thousands of miles. I talked to that mechanic friend of my mine this morning at my buddy's shop and his 15 (IIRC) truck has 280k miles with what appears to be the original CP4.
Troy, I know your truck has close to 300k miles with the original CP4. So it is possible... is it fuel, additive use and/or luck? Who knows?
All I know is i feel much safer now with the S&S kit on now...
I'd really like to have a grasp of percentage wise, which will never happen as Ford holds them close, of the amount of failures of CP4s.
While I acknowledge this can happen early on in an engines life to far out to hundreds of thousands of miles. I talked to that mechanic friend of my mine this morning at my buddy's shop and his 15 (IIRC) truck has 280k miles with what appears to be the original CP4.
Troy, I know your truck has close to 300k miles with the original CP4. So it is possible... is it fuel, additive use and/or luck? Who knows?
All I know is i feel much safer now with the S&S kit on now...
Thread Starter
|
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,937
Likes: 2,651
From: The Great State of Texas
The 2019-2020 Ram cummins version of the CP4.2 had pinned buckets too, but that pump was such a disaster they went back to the CP3 pump in 2021, so I'm thinking there are some new changes to the CP4.2 that they're implementing. I think this new version of the Cummins is to recover from the black eye they got from the original CP4 pump, the CGI block that would warp, and the lifter failures. Having said that, going back to a version of the CP4.2 pump, they better get it right this time since they had to pay to replace those CP4.2 pumps on every 2019-2020 Ram truck with a CP3 pump
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 913
Likes: 1,848
From: SE PA
Trending Topics
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
From: SC
Since the 6.7 was introduced in 2011 it is estimated that over 2 million have been produced, the production plant has a reported capacity of 200,000 units per year. I believe that the failure rate is in the single digits since a 10% failure rate would be 200,000 units and with that many failures I think that there would be a huge clamor for a recall. With about 3000 Ford dealerships in the us, if the failures were evenly spread, each dealership would have seen 67 failures. My local dealership, which is a commercial vehicle dealership has not seen anywhere near that number. A 1% rate is still a big number at 20,000 units, but it is probably close to the failure rate.
Replacing a $1500 pump is straightforward and not too difficult a job. What leaves a bad taste; all the injectors are trashed, along with fuel rails, dropping / cleaning the tank, etc. The time and cost for a simple pump failure is?!?
You would 'think" (though maybe that is beyond the scope), that FORD after 15 years, would have developed a solution to prevent the catastrophic damage. If an 'aftermarket' DCR can fail without complete destruction of the fuel system, why not a Billion dollar car manufacturer?
Since almost all the failures appear to occur outside of warranty coverage and they continue to sell millions of trucks, it would seem not enough noise is made (by owners), vs the dollars made by FORD selling parts.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 913
Likes: 1,848
From: SE PA
I don't believe the failure rate is the problem, all parts fail and we are all use to replacing failed parts. The issue with CP4 failures is the damage done to the entire fuel system.
Replacing a $1500 pump is straightforward and not too difficult a job. What leaves a bad taste; all the injectors are trashed, along with fuel rails, dropping / cleaning the tank, etc. The time and cost for a simple pump failure is?!?
You would 'think" (though maybe that is beyond the scope), that FORD after 15 years, would have developed a solution to prevent the catastrophic damage. If an 'aftermarket' DCR can fail without complete destruction of the fuel system, why not a Billion dollar car manufacturer?
Since almost all the failures appear to occur outside of warranty coverage and they continue to sell millions of trucks, it would seem not enough noise is made (by owners), vs the dollars made by FORD selling parts.
Replacing a $1500 pump is straightforward and not too difficult a job. What leaves a bad taste; all the injectors are trashed, along with fuel rails, dropping / cleaning the tank, etc. The time and cost for a simple pump failure is?!?
You would 'think" (though maybe that is beyond the scope), that FORD after 15 years, would have developed a solution to prevent the catastrophic damage. If an 'aftermarket' DCR can fail without complete destruction of the fuel system, why not a Billion dollar car manufacturer?
Since almost all the failures appear to occur outside of warranty coverage and they continue to sell millions of trucks, it would seem not enough noise is made (by owners), vs the dollars made by FORD selling parts.
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 51
Likes: 46
From: SC
I agree 100% with your post about the failure rate (being low) 👍, I was just adding (to your post) that even though the pump (design?) may be poor (and failure rate is proportionally low), it wouldn't bother many of us if the pump was all that failed, vs the whole fuel system and the huge amount of labor involved in repairing.
Sorry for any misunderstanding!
scott
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14,266
Likes: 2,187
when I bought my 2010 6.4 which had 80K or so miles on it...I changed all the fluids and filters as soon as I got home. found what looked like vasoline in the engine bay fuel filter and it had glitter in it. the pump still worked for the 10K or so miles I had the truck for. the 2010 had a cp4. point being as it relates to the 6.7 is that while the numbers of total failures COULD be low....the numbers of impending failures are going to be significantly higher....meaning...all the pumps out there wearing away due to low sulpher fuel or fuel geling. I would agree that under idea conditions, most cp4's last the warranty period with out fail..but...are they wearing out super fast.
some folks have 200k plus miles on them and no problems...some recent year trucks with less than 30k have cp4's that kicked the bucket.
the problem most people haveis instead of ford warranting those failures becuase ford knows they put a box of rocks out there...ford spends a lot of tiime doing secret chants and voodoo dances to deny claims. my favorite is a sensor in the fuel system made of pot metal instead of stainless steel....its a check point for rust...and if it rusted...denied.
some folks have 200k plus miles on them and no problems...some recent year trucks with less than 30k have cp4's that kicked the bucket.
the problem most people haveis instead of ford warranting those failures becuase ford knows they put a box of rocks out there...ford spends a lot of tiime doing secret chants and voodoo dances to deny claims. my favorite is a sensor in the fuel system made of pot metal instead of stainless steel....its a check point for rust...and if it rusted...denied.
FTE Legend
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 31,880
Likes: 9,172
From: Western NY
Since the 6.7 was introduced in 2011 it is estimated that over 2 million have been produced, the production plant has a reported capacity of 200,000 units per year. I believe that the failure rate is in the single digits since a 10% failure rate would be 200,000 units and with that many failures I think that there would be a huge clamor for a recall. With about 3000 Ford dealerships in the us, if the failures were evenly spread, each dealership would have seen 67 failures. My local dealership, which is a commercial vehicle dealership has not seen anywhere near that number. A 1% rate is still a big number at 20,000 units, but it is probably close to the failure rate.
An old Ford tech who now works at my buddy's shop IIRC said that he didn't recall a lot of them either.
One also has to wonder how the failure rate is in Europe as the pump was made there and that Euro ULSD has more lubricity in it than US ULSD, from what ive read if even true.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,670
Likes: 974
From: Walpole, MA
Since the 6.7 was introduced in 2011 it is estimated that over 2 million have been produced, the production plant has a reported capacity of 200,000 units per year. I believe that the failure rate is in the single digits since a 10% failure rate would be 200,000 units and with that many failures I think that there would be a huge clamor for a recall. With about 3000 Ford dealerships in the us, if the failures were evenly spread, each dealership would have seen 67 failures. My local dealership, which is a commercial vehicle dealership has not seen anywhere near that number. A 1% rate is still a big number at 20,000 units, but it is probably close to the failure rate.
when I bought my 2010 6.4 which had 80K or so miles on it...I changed all the fluids and filters as soon as I got home. found what looked like vasoline in the engine bay fuel filter and it had glitter in it. the pump still worked for the 10K or so miles I had the truck for. the 2010 had a cp4. point being as it relates to the 6.7 is that while the numbers of total failures COULD be low....the numbers of impending failures are going to be significantly higher....meaning...all the pumps out there wearing away due to low sulpher fuel or fuel geling. I would agree that under idea conditions, most cp4's last the warranty period with out fail..but...are they wearing out super fast.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 770
Likes: 186
From: Knightstown Indiana
My 2016 had 330k on it when the CP4 failed. I was the original owner and never used additives. However, I think I was really tempting fate. I’ll convert my 2020 sooner than later though just for the peace of mind. Nothing worse than a catastrophic failure while out of town, and during the COVID parts shortages no less. I’d rather spend 2k on my terms than 10k at some unforeseen point in the future. I know I’ll have this truck for awhile.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 700
Likes: 478
It wasnt until my first CP4 failed that I even knew it was something being discussed. Im sure the majority of used truck purchasers just dont know about the CP4s reputation and the majority of new truck purchasers feel safe with a warranty and will be out of the truck before or shortly after it expires.
I purchased two 2016 and one 2018 powerstroke without even knowing. After losing the CP4 in both my 2016 trucks I hit the internet and there it was all over the place lol. Too late now but the 2018 is still chugging along with over 200k on the original pump.
I purchased two 2016 and one 2018 powerstroke without even knowing. After losing the CP4 in both my 2016 trucks I hit the internet and there it was all over the place lol. Too late now but the 2018 is still chugging along with over 200k on the original pump.