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Starter grounded

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Old Nov 4, 2024 | 05:00 PM
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Starter grounded

Been working on a 1989 f150 that was converted to carbureted. The truck dies after i turn the ignition to run and i hear one click where the starter solenoid is located. But I’ve noticed if I unplug the ignition wire on the starter solenoid nothing happens, as in the power doesn’t cut off. Any recommendations
 

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Old Nov 4, 2024 | 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by All-star216
Been working on a 1989 f150 that was converted to carbureted. The truck dies after i turn the ignition to run and i hear one click where the starter solenoid is located. But I’ve noticed if I unplug the ignition wire on the starter solenoid nothing happens, as in the power doesn’t cut off. Any recommendations
Just so I understand what you're saying, when you turn the key to the run position, from the lock position, you lose power to the accessories, gauges, etc?
There are five positions on a 1989 ignition switch, (the electrical switch that's connected to the key cylinder, by a linkage rod).
Full counter clockwise with the key, is an accessory position, where you should have power to the stereo, heater blower, power windows, etc.
Moving forward from there, through the key positions, they go: lock, off, run, start.
When the key is turned to the start position, the column mounted ignition switch, sends 12 volts to the fender mounted starter relay, on the small gauge wire. When the switch springs back to the run position, that 12 volts is removed from the starter relay.
If you're starter relay pulls in just by cycling the key to the run position, you may have an ignition switch problem, or a problem with the linkage between the key cylinder and the column mounted ignition switch.
Here's a video on how the fender mounted relay (aka solenoid) works:

How old is your battery?
The battery terminals and connections at the fender mounted starter relay, need to be clean and tight.
The large ground cable, that runs from the battery negative terminal, to the front of the engine block, and frame, or to the starter mounting bolt and frame, is worth checking out, and replacing, if need be. The starter is grounded through that cable. That cable can corrode inside and cause issues. The terminal ends of that cable need to have a clean, tight connection.
 
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Old Nov 5, 2024 | 07:24 AM
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Thanks for the info, so then it would be the start position where I lose power to everything. I know that the ignition switch is good as I’ve replaced it. As for the battery it’s relatively new the cables and terminations are all clean, Im suspecting something within the ignition wiring. Although I can’t seem to find a wiring diagram
 
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Old Nov 5, 2024 | 02:27 PM
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Or it may even be my starter as I’ve bridged the two terminals on the fender mounted solenoid, and still no crank. Just a click from the solenoid. Interestingly enough power also cuts out if i bridge the two terminals.
 
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Old Nov 5, 2024 | 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by All-star216
Or it may even be my starter as I’ve bridged the two terminals on the fender mounted solenoid, and still no crank. Just a click from the solenoid. Interestingly enough power also cuts out if i bridge the two terminals.
Your starter could be a dead short.
Disconnect the starter power wire from the solenoid, then see if the same symptoms happen.
 
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Old Nov 5, 2024 | 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wwhite
Your starter could be a dead short.
Disconnect the starter power wire from the solenoid, then see if the same symptoms happen.
Thanks that seems to have been the issue. So does that mean i need a new starter or is the starter being grounded improperly?
 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by All-star216
Thanks that seems to have been the issue. So does that mean i need a new starter or is the starter being grounded improperly?
So the starter that I installed is having the same issue. I know that the starter itself is grounded through the engine. However when I check the positive terminal on the starter it’s grounded which from my understanding is not right. I just don’t comprehend why it would be grounded.
 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by All-star216
So the starter that I installed is having the same issue. I know that the starter itself is grounded through the engine. However when I check the positive terminal on the starter it’s grounded which from my understanding is not right. I just don’t comprehend why it would be grounded.
Focus on the wiring, starting at the battery positive terminal.
There should be one cable from the battery positive terminal, to one of the large posts on the fender mounted starter relay.
From the other large post on the fender mounted starter relay, there should be one cable going to the starter.
On the small threaded stud, at the fender mounted starter relay, there should be a smaller gauge wire; that's the wire from the ignition switch.
From the battery negative terminal, there should be a large gauge wire, running either to the front of the engine block (on V8 engines), or to one of the starter mounting bolts on a straight 6 engine (not to the starter electrical connection).
How old is your battery?
How clean and reasonably tight are the battery terminal connections, and the connections at the fender mounted starter relay.
Is the fender mounted starter relay backing plate attached to the fender properly? That backing plate is how the relay is grounded.
Post pictures of your starter relay and battery and starter connections.
When you tested the starter, and found it was grounded, did you have one tester lead on the battery positive terminal, and the other tester lead on the starter electrical terminal? If so, you should get 12 volts, because you're reading through the starter motor windings, to ground.
When the fender mounted starter relay pulls in, then the starter electrical connector gets 12 volts from the battery, which flows through the starter windings, to ground.
Picture a wire coiled around a nail, with the two ends connected to a 9 volt battery. The nail would become magnetized. That magnetic field is what induces current into an electric motor, and makes it move. One end of the starter motor windings stays connected to ground, the other end is connected to battery voltage, only when the fender mounted starter relay closes.
 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by All-star216
So the starter that I installed is having the same issue. I know that the starter itself is grounded through the engine. However when I check the positive terminal on the starter it’s grounded which from my understanding is not right. I just don’t comprehend why it would be grounded.
how are you testing it?
there must be continuity from ground to + otherwise it would be open.
i doubt it is a short.
 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 02:02 PM
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The green dots are ground symbols.
There should only be one wire connected to the large stud, on the starter side of the fender mounted starter relay.
There will be multiple wires connected to the other large stud of the fender mounted starter relay, where the cable from the battery connects.
 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Soup bean
Focus on the wiring, starting at the battery positive terminal.
There should be one cable from the battery positive terminal, to one of the large posts on the fender mounted starter relay.
From the other large post on the fender mounted starter relay, there should be one cable going to the starter.
On the small threaded stud, at the fender mounted starter relay, there should be a smaller gauge wire; that's the wire from the ignition switch.
From the battery negative terminal, there should be a large gauge wire, running either to the front of the engine block (on V8 engines), or to one of the starter mounting bolts on a straight 6 engine (not to the starter electrical connection).
How old is your battery?
How clean and reasonably tight are the battery terminal connections, and the connections at the fender mounted starter relay.
Is the fender mounted starter relay backing plate attached to the fender properly? That backing plate is how the relay is grounded.
Post pictures of your starter relay and battery and starter connections.
When you tested the starter, and found it was grounded, did you have one tester lead on the battery positive terminal, and the other tester lead on the starter electrical terminal? If so, you should get 12 volts, because you're reading through the starter motor windings, to ground.
When the fender mounted starter relay pulls in, then the starter electrical connector gets 12 volts from the battery, which flows through the starter windings, to ground.
Picture a wire coiled around a nail, with the two ends connected to a 9 volt battery. The nail would become magnetized. That magnetic field is what induces current into an electric motor, and makes it move. One end of the starter motor windings stays connected to ground, the other end is connected to battery voltage, only when the fender mounted starter relay closes.
My connections are exactly how it is in a diagram. I made sure everything is properly grounded and yet I'm still having the same problem.




 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 04:25 PM
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Disconnect these cables at both posts, and re strip them so there's shiny copper, then remove the two bolts holding the top clamps and clean the underside of the top clamps, until they're shiny. Also clean the battery posts and the inside of the clamps, where they slide over the battery posts.
Plan to replace these battery terminals, but stripping back the wire, and cleaning the surfaces should get you going.
How old is the battery? The battery could be the whole problem.

Where does this wire go?

 
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Old Nov 15, 2024 | 04:34 PM
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How is the main ground wire connection at the engine block? It needs to be clean as well. What engine is in the truck? If it's a V8, the ground connection is on the lower passengers side, front of the block.
While you have the battery cables disconnected, set your volt meter to ohms and take a resistance reading of that main ground cable, while both ends are disconnected, and of the battery positive cable, while both ends are disconnected.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2024 | 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Soup bean
How is the main ground wire connection at the engine block? It needs to be clean as well. What engine is in the truck? If it's a V8, the ground connection is on the lower passengers side, front of the block.
While you have the battery cables disconnected, set your volt meter to ohms and take a resistance reading of that main ground cable, while both ends are disconnected, and of the battery positive cable, while both ends are disconnected.
Thanks for the help, the ground near the front of the block was covered in grime; And was a pain to take off. So I took it off and connected it to a bolt on the alternator and it turned over.
 
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Old Nov 16, 2024 | 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by All-star216
Thanks for the help, the ground near the front of the block was covered in grime; And was a pain to take off. So I took it off and connected it to a bolt on the alternator and it turned over.
One of the alternator mounting bolts?
 
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