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I understand the importance of perfectly positioning my crate 302 parallel with the frame rails for proper driveline angle to the pinion. I am using the motor mounts pictured below from speedway motors. Can this be done by simply bolting the 2 mounts the exact same distance back from the front end of the frame rails? Is this acceptable or is there a more accurate way to do this? Thanks
Sorry bud, that won’t open for me to see them. I used Eye bolts and a turn buckle. I bolted one eye to the heads and clamped the other to the frame with small C clamps. The you can fine tune the engine placement with the transmission weight resting on a jack. I was then able to make measurements and fab from there. I wish I could give better advice, but I don’t know which mount you are looking at.
As I recall, the motor mounts on the SBF are not symmetrical, meaning if you tried to make the measurements the same on both sides, one side won't fit. Best to hang the engine/trans assembly in the area it's supposed to be and fit the mounts to it, paying close attention to steering, exhaust, starter, and anything else in the way between the radiator and firewall and inner fenders. This is a good spot for the 5 P's, Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.
As I recall, the motor mounts on the SBF are not symmetrical, meaning if you tried to make the measurements the same on both sides, one side won't fit. Best to hang the engine/trans assembly in the area it's supposed to be and fit the mounts to it, paying close attention to steering, exhaust, starter, and anything else in the way between the radiator and firewall and inner fenders. This is a good spot for the 5 P's, Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.
I agree with you if you are using stock replacement type mounts. I did a CV swap and had to build my own. Believe me, there was a lot of thought and math in my mounts. Drivetrain alignment and angles were all taken into consideration. I gave him the best information that I could without seeing what mount he wanted to use.
Good info. I didn't realize the sbf mounts on block might be asymmetrical. However, think a better plan would be, once positioned correctly, measure to get front of crankshaft centered between frame rail then do the same at trans tailpiece spline. Don't know why link isn't opening but it is the style mount which span from block to frame rail....not cross member style. Thx
You didn't say what transmission. I have to assume it is one that has provisions for a transmission mount. If I were doing this, I would mount the transmission to the engine with the mounts bolted to the engine. Get everything centered in the transmission tunnel. Then fabricate a transmission crossmember. Then get the engine mounts fit up. I have my doubts that engine swap mounts made to fit such a wide range of years considering the differences in a 53 vs. a 64 are going to be plug and play.
The centerline of the engine should be offset to the passenger side. Look at the hump in the firewall. You want the centerline of the motor to be as close to the offset of the pinion as possible.
This is a mock up of a 429 that I will be putting in my 63
Good info. I didn't realize the sbf mounts on block might be asymmetrical. However, think a better plan would be, once positioned correctly, measure to get front of crankshaft centered between frame rail then do the same at trans tailpiece spline. Don't know why link isn't opening but it is the style mount which span from block to frame rail....not cross member style. Thx
Having the crank centered between the frame rails is not important. Many times the engine will be offset somewhat to accommodate steering and exhaust. The important part is that the crank/trans output is parallel to the frame and differential pinion. Understanding driveshaft angles and phasing here is important. https://www.moderndriveline.com/driv...ing-explained/
One thing not mentioned in the video is the importance of the driveshaft not being in a perfect alignment between engine and rear end. The u-joints need to move or they will fail.
Typically, your engine will angle down 3 degrees, and the pinion yoke will be pointing up 3 degrees to match. The rear pinion will be offset from the engine to help with having a working angle.
52 merc is spot on. You will get a vibration if the drive line angles are off (I believe 2-3* difference may be ok, but please don’t quote me on that.). Measure a ton, both distances and degrees. The weight has to be on the suspension to get the correct angle of the rear end yolk.
You efi or carburetor ?
I believe the motor needs to be set so intake is parallel with earth ground. Most intakes have a rake, as you accelerate g-force can move gas in bowl to the rear.
just another variable.
the drive line must be within that angle, the trans flange and diff flange must be parallel, does not matter up down left right, just need the angle not zero and not more than 5 degrees for u joints to work properly
The centerline of the engine should be offset to the passenger side. Look at the hump in the firewall. You want the centerline of the motor to be as close to the offset of the pinion as possible.
This is a mock up of a 429 that I will be putting in my 63
I have a 460 mounted, took it to a race car shop with new engine and trans mounts, they boxed and welded it in, they even supplied me with a camero driveshaft that happened to fit perfectly.
then once mounted you adjust the rear end to be correct pinion angle.
I have a 460 mounted, took it to a race car shop with new engine and trans mounts, they boxed and welded it in, they even supplied me with a camero driveshaft that happened to fit perfectly.
then once mounted you adjust the rear end to be correct pinion angle.
I set up the engine mounts and trans crossmember to match the 3 degree pinion angle.
Transmission is a 3 speed toploader. 302 has front sump oil pan so mounts are the type which span from block to frame rail. See pic. I know the trans tunnel is offset but these mount only allow center position. I read that this is OK so long as driveline angle is phased correctly. Downloaded the really helpful tremec angle finder app and thinking I'll go 2.5 - 3 degrees on pinion and trans spline. There obviously will be some horizontal angle due to offset pinion but I read that isn't a problem. Looking like the intake/carb
is gonna be pretty close to level. My trans support has been modified by previous owner and looks like I will need a around 2-3" spacer between support and mounting foot of trans tailpiece. Any ideas of what i should use for spacer? Does this all sound ok? 1st time down this road for me. Thank you for advice!
Transmission is a 3 speed toploader. 302 has front sump oil pan so mounts are the type which span from block to frame rail. See pic. I know the trans tunnel is offset but these mount only allow center position. I read that this is OK so long as driveline angle is phased correctly. Downloaded the really helpful tremec angle finder app and thinking I'll go 2.5 - 3 degrees on pinion and trans spline. There obviously will be some horizontal angle due to offset pinion but I read that isn't a problem. Looking like the intake/carb
is gonna be pretty close to level. My trans support has been modified by previous owner and looks like I will need a around 2-3" spacer between support and mounting foot of trans tailpiece. Any ideas of what i should use for spacer? Does this all sound ok? 1st time down this road for me. Thank you for advice!
I bought that same set for the 460/429. The brand was Trans-Dapt. I bought them just to see what they looked like.
I wound up buying two sets and modifying them. I extended the left side block bracket and shortened the right side, so that the engine was offset to the passenger side. I also took the four frame brackets, doubled them up and made two out of the four, this way each frame bracket had four bolts instead of two.
The rubber mounts that come in these kits are poor quality and sag out quickly and easily. I've seen a set on a small block chevy swap install. I also bought a set of similar round rubber biscuit mounts from Speedway Motors, which are made of more dense rubber and are superior to what originally comes in the kit. Eventually, I bought a set of universal polyurethane mounts that I modified to fit the frame brackets that I welded together. This required me to fabricate my own steel bushings for the polyurethane mounts.
I know this all is useless without pictures but I'm at work and don't currently have access to my pictures.
I will follow this post with pictures and an explanation when I get home.
On the left is the Speedway Motors mount, on the right is the mount that came in the Trans-Dapt kit. The Speedway mount is made of a harder, more dense rubber and is better than the soft mounts that come in the kit.
This is the universal polyurethane mount. It is more dense than either of the rubber mounts. Note the bushing in the center, the spacing is designed for the mount to be installed in metal that is roughly the thickness of the frame brackets in the Trans-Dapt kit.
These are the engine block brackets. I shortened the right side and lengthened the left side in order to offset the engine to the right, centering the driveline in the firewall tunnel.
Since the 429/460 is heavy, I wanted sturdier frame brackets. I bought two mount kits and doubled up the frame brackets so that they will be attached with four bolts instead of two, plus this design is structurally stronger.
Because I doubled the thickness of the frame brackets, I had to lengthen the the metal bushing in the center of the polyurethane mount. I made my own bushing assembly from McMaster-Carr goodies.
This is the assembled mount. The frame brackets aren’t finished, the 90 degree corners will be shaped and removed.
Some pics of the mounts installed in a mock-up.
This pic shows the engine offset to the right.
This is the transmission crossmember that I’ll be using. The top pic shows the mount hole being relocated to the right. The combo of the engine mounts and the contour of the trans crossmember give me the exact 3 degrees that I need to match the pinion angle.
I notched the intermediate crossmember for clearance of the C6 pan. This will get filled in. I am not using this frame. I have another perfect frame that I will transfer over these measurements.
