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S&S makes the return filter kit that will scrub the fuel if the CP4 fails. However, if there is a 20 micron screen with a view bowl like the new gen 2 SPE, and it gets checked regularly plus has a low pressure cut off switch, wouldn't it accomplish pretty much the same thing?
Here's my thought on it. The S&S may keep the tank clean when the CP4 fails, but how longer before complete failure on the side of the road if there is no way to check without pulling and cutting open the filter? How long does it take to grind down the cam before it turns into fines that can get past the 20 micron screen before the cut off is triggered? If damage happens to the CP4, the first things coming out of it will be chunks of plating from the can, which will get caught by the screen and visible. So it is an early warning system, then if ignored will become a potential issue beyond.
I'm tossing the SPE vs S&S kits as my next install. I see many pros with the gen 2 kit in that is looks factory, and uses factory mounting points, and is all hard lines. They even have the return set up so no twisting of fittings, and installation is much easier and faster now.
The main pro of the S&S is the return filter, but uses hoses and I think cutting has been eliminated, but does take longer to install. It also costs more now.
S&S makes the return filter kit that will scrub the fuel if the CP4 fails. However, if there is a 20 micron screen with a view bowl like the new gen 2 SPE, and it gets checked regularly plus has a low pressure cut off switch, wouldn't it accomplish pretty much the same thing?
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A 20 micron return spe screen means that 19 microns and below get thru….the injector holes are 6 microns so the spe solution will result in injector clogging.
the s&s kit I bought had a 2 micron return filter so 1 micron particles will get thru and pass right thru the 6 micron injector holes.
A 20 micron return spe screen means that 19 microns and below get thru….the injector holes are 6 microns so the spe solution will result in injector clogging.
the s&s kit I bought had a 2 micron return filter so 1 micron particles will get thru and pass right thru the 6 micron injector holes.
its that simple.
Yes but this on the return line, so the fuel needs to go back through the low pressure system before it would hit the injectors anyways.
However, I can't seem to find one with 1/2 inlets to match the rest of the system which is mostly 1/2 or 12MM connections and they are mostly 100 wire mesh filters, so 144 micron which is a little course IMHO. You could plumb one inline upstream of the primary filter to act as a rock catcher. The Racor filters S&S originally used provide a window into the system as well, as do the Dahl series from parker. Those can spendy. You could also plump a golden rod filter in there, they are clear but I would be cautious about using a dispensing filter as a vehicle if it blocks solid.
They make diesel combatable versions of these EFI inline filters as well, you can crack the ends open to inspect:
I think they run the range from 100 to 10 micron elements at who knows efficiency but that is less important downstream of the injection pump, at least to me.
Yes but this on the return line, so the fuel needs to go back through the low pressure system before it would hit the injectors anyways.
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the new engine bay filter has a bypass valve so it will basically be wide open when clogged. ….so that will get you 10 micron protection at best from the under carriage filter…10 microns will clogg the injectors.
Also, dpk’s with out return filters were still blowing up fuel system so I don’t have any confidence in the micron rating of stock filters or know if the stock filters were nominally rated multi pass or absolute rated single pass.
the new engine bay filter has a bypass valve so it will basically be wide open when clogged. ….so that will get you 10 micron protection at best from the under carriage filter…10 microns will clogg the injectors.
Also, dpk’s with out return filters were still blowing up fuel system so I don’t have any confidence in the micron rating of stock filters or know if the stock filters were nominally rated multi pass or absolute rated single pass.
Yes, I get the concern about the cold weather bypass on the OEM filters. I have my grips with the factory set up, that said anecdotally the Ford 6.7 has a lot fewer injector issues than other HPCR set ups like say the 04.5-07 CR Cummins engines the OEM system is pretty solid, barring a significant mechanical failure. I think it could definitely be improved and I have a box of parts on my workbench for that. Buying the new house really threw a kink in the fuel system mods but hey at least I got a garage now!
A DPK without a return filter is not a DPK IMHO, the return filtration is a critical component of said kit.
As far as S&S vs. SPE, the new SPE kit looks nice and, while the company has a mixed customer service reputation, the quality of the machine work on their parts is impressive. Not sure how great that "20 micron" screen is or how durable it is. The screen on the beer keg based gen 1 systems had a nasty tendency to cave in if it was hit with too much debris, rendering it useless.
the new engine bay filter has a bypass valve so it will basically be wide open when clogged. ….so that will get you 10 micron protection at best from the under carriage filter…10 microns will clogg the injectors.
Also, dpk’s with out return filters were still blowing up fuel system so I don’t have any confidence in the micron rating of stock filters or know if the stock filters were nominally rated multi pass or absolute rated single pass.
While this is true, if proper maintenance is performed, such as checking the oil occasionally, adding a look at the filter bowl (which S&S used to have) and seeing any flakes would be an immediate do not drive this. Thats the main difference I see between the two kits since the SPE acts as an early warning. Whatever happened to get past it should be captured by the factory filters IF caught in time. I think thats the key, catching the failure in time before it can pollute the rest of the system.
I see not being able to monitor the return filter as a drawback on the S&S kit. The S&S also does not have the low pressure bypass switch to trigger a CEL. Would I prefer a 2 micron screen? Yep.
However I might do like I did with the last install, put the SPE and S&S return filter in, then have the best of both worlds and 100% protection. The hard lines are more secure and safer, while the S&S filter has 100% filtration protection. The old SPE return filter was a PITA to install which is why I put the S&S one on instead, but the Gen 2 is easy to install and the S&S kit even easier to plug in since it doesn't twist the line around. This gives me the ability to check the return without taking the filter off, and extends the life of the filter as well.
While this is true, if proper maintenance is performed, such as checking the oil occasionally, adding a look at the filter bowl (which S&S used to have) and seeing any flakes would be an immediate do not drive this. Thats the main difference I see between the two kits since the SPE acts as an early warning. Whatever happened to get past it should be captured by the factory filters IF caught in time. I think thats the key, catching the failure in time before it can pollute the rest of the system.
I see not being able to monitor the return filter as a drawback on the S&S kit. The S&S also does not have the low pressure bypass switch to trigger a CEL. Would I prefer a 2 micron screen? Yep.
However I might do like I did with the last install, put the SPE and S&S return filter in, then have the best of both worlds and 100% protection. The hard lines are more secure and safer, while the S&S filter has 100% filtration protection. The old SPE return filter was a PITA to install which is why I put the S&S one on instead, but the Gen 2 is easy to install and the S&S kit even easier to plug in since it doesn't twist the line around. This gives me the ability to check the return without taking the filter off, and extends the life of the filter as well.
Trying to follow your comments, for 2024, are you still using both the S&S and SPE kits?
Trying to follow your comments, for 2024, are you still using both the S&S and SPE kits?
Well, I am still on the fence on the entire S&S kit, just something about the assembly that doesn't appeal to me. The other day when I went to fill the truck, it's second fuel filling, I discovered crystals on the bottom of the fuel cap lip. There were also a couple spots of crystals by the DEF and under the fuel cap. While I didn't see any indication of DEF getting past the bottom of the lip, it looked like DEF had splashed when it was filled, what I don't know is if the fuel cap was in place at the time. This was done by the dealer since I have not needed to fill the DEF yet. So I ordered the new SPE kit since it looks like something the factory would actually install. I will give it a try and after it is installed, will decide if the S&S filter is warranted. I was putting off the DPK until next spring, but seeing DEF was splashed and not knowing if the person filling it was a DumbA$$ and left both caps off, I am going to put the kit on ASAP.
The new kit looks intriguing as SPE resolved the biggest complaints of their first gen. It is all hard lines now with fittings that are held in place factory style, and the return filter has a viewing window so it can be checked regularly to see if there is any damage happening. I believe that a damaged CP4 will spit chunks first before the real damage can occur and get fed back to the rest of the system. I believe that is SPE feelings on this as well, and why they added the pressure sensor. If the pump fails, it will send large pieces to the filter which will cause a pressure drop, and trigger the CEL. I know many don't like SPE due to their support, or lack of it, but this is my 3rd SPE kit, have not had problems with the first two, though that return filter is such a PITA to install that I left it off and installed the S&S return filter instead. They eliminated the return filter from the first kit and integrated it into the new kit so it is easier to install. Down the road I can always add the return filter if I want.
I see not being able to monitor the return filter as a drawback on the S&S kit. The S&S also does not have the low pressure bypass switch to trigger a CEL. Would I prefer a 2 micron screen? Yep.
the new engine bay filters have a bypass. the filter can go into by pass for climate related (cold weather waxing) or non climate related (bio matter). when the engine bay filter goes into by pass....the only filtration you will have in a stock setup is the 10 micron lower chasis or intank filter. so if cp4 fails and send particles to the fuel tank, sub 10 micron will get thru and head towards your 6 micron hole size injectors.
Well, I am still on the fence on the entire S&S kit, just something about the assembly that doesn't appeal to me. The other day when I went to fill the truck, it's second fuel filling, I discovered crystals on the bottom of the fuel cap lip. There were also a couple spots of crystals by the DEF and under the fuel cap. While I didn't see any indication of DEF getting past the bottom of the lip, it looked like DEF had splashed when it was filled, what I don't know is if the fuel cap was in place at the time. This was done by the dealer since I have not needed to fill the DEF yet. So I ordered the new SPE kit since it looks like something the factory would actually install. I will give it a try and after it is installed, will decide if the S&S filter is warranted. I was putting off the DPK until next spring, but seeing DEF was splashed and not knowing if the person filling it was a DumbA$$ and left both caps off, I am going to put the kit on ASAP.
The new kit looks intriguing as SPE resolved the biggest complaints of their first gen. It is all hard lines now with fittings that are held in place factory style, and the return filter has a viewing window so it can be checked regularly to see if there is any damage happening. I believe that a damaged CP4 will spit chunks first before the real damage can occur and get fed back to the rest of the system. I believe that is SPE feelings on this as well, and why they added the pressure sensor. If the pump fails, it will send large pieces to the filter which will cause a pressure drop, and trigger the CEL. I know many don't like SPE due to their support, or lack of it, but this is my 3rd SPE kit, have not had problems with the first two, though that return filter is such a PITA to install that I left it off and installed the S&S return filter instead. They eliminated the return filter from the first kit and integrated it into the new kit so it is easier to install. Down the road I can always add the return filter if I want.
What does S&S have to say about the viewing window? Didn’t you mention they used to have it?
But interesting the above comment about a bypass for cold weather and other circumstances makes me wonder if have a 2 micron filter would cause issues in cold weather. I’m purchasing a 2015 Thor Super C that’s on a 2014 F550 chassis. Looking to add a DPK and whatever recommended on these to fix the issues.
What does S&S have to say about the viewing window? Didn’t you mention they used to have it?
But interesting the above comment about a bypass for cold weather and other circumstances makes me wonder if have a 2 micron filter would cause issues in cold weather. I’m purchasing a 2015 Thor Super C that’s on a 2014 F550 chassis. Looking to add a DPK and whatever recommended on these to fix the issues.
return fuel is super hot so you don’t have to worry about it clogging a return filter
once out of the return filter it goes to a fuel cooler…then the tank
A 20 micron return spe screen means that 19 microns and below get thru….the injector holes are 6 microns so the spe solution will result in injector clogging.
the s&s kit I bought had a 2 micron return filter so 1 micron particles will get thru and pass right thru the 6 micron injector holes.
its that simple.
Interesting the video from SPE, they comment on why they use 20 micron.
But interesting the above comment about a bypass for cold weather and other circumstances makes me wonder if have a 2 micron filter would cause issues in cold weather.
I had a 2 micron fuel filter hanging out on a frame rail on my old dodge for about 100k miles, no issues with handful of below zero starts. Actually, had the low pressure pump crap out and my CP3 was drawing through a 10 micron W/S, the 2 micron and the factory 5 micron filters. 03-07 CR injectors are stupid sensitive. With properly treated fuel I wouldn't worry about it but a filter wrap isn't the worst idea either.
Originally Posted by 110 Motorsports
Also, looking at the S&S kit, shows 9 micron instead of 2.
The original S&S return filter kit used a Racor SNAPP filter, they swapped that out for a 9 micron Donaldson spin on I believe due to availability of the snapp filters. IMHO 10-20 microns is plenty for return line filtration.
return fuel is super hot so you don’t have to worry about it clogging a return filter
once out of the return filter it goes to a fuel cooler…then the tank
Not when first started, as you mentioned in the previous post, the top filter would go to bypass in COLD weather for fuel gelling, the bio mass would be carelessness and that is an example of neglect, so they deserve to lose the fuel system. If the top filter gelled up, so would the S&S filter sitting next to it but more exposed, so the back pressure on the system would cause the engine to run extremely bad at which point, shut if off.
Properly treated fuel shouldn't gel or get algae. On the flip side, that window in the new kit allows one to see the fuel condition as well. A real quick look will tell if the fuel is gelling or if there is a squid being born.
