Hi and thank you for having me,
I've learned more from this forum than I could from any book but still don't know enough, I have a 98 Expedition w/5.4L and E4OD trans. that I got from my Father and I just can't part with it (RIP. Dad).
Here's the story, Seven years ago the converter let lose so I decided to rebuild the transmission and was very happy with the outcome until I drove it, needless to say it has been parked in my yard for the past seven years. I now want to get a trailer so I thought why not fix Dads car and pull it with that, after all it's only a transmission!!!
Here's the problem, It's missing a gear, I think that 2nd gear is the one that is missing because the first shift at just under half throttle will occur at 27mph./3000rpm. (It's quite drivable with a little less throttle)
I pulled the main VB. and checked the 1-2 and D2 shift valves and proceeded to break the solenoid pack so I could check it (connector was frozen into bulkhead), Replaced that with a rebuilt unit that I should have checked prior to installation but didn't, It was a fail, the line pressure was way to high and the TCC solenoid circuit was open. The replacement unit tested fine and worked fine and now I am back to square one. Commanded gear one and commanded gear two are the same gear, manual 1 and manual 2 are the same gear, 3 and 4 inc.TCC work fine despite the fact that the OD off button doesn't turn the OD off but I don't think that is relevant (It does however turn the OD OFF light on)
Here's the question, Is the intermediate sprag required for both automatic 2 and manual 2, OR EVEN BETTER, can anyone tell me what I did wrong???
Thanks In advance, Nick

 

It is possible to install the 2nd gear sprag in backwards and that would cause this problem. When 2nd gear is engaged the clutch comes on and through the intermediate sprag it stops the rotation of the forward drum, sun shell etc and holds it to make the sun gear of the forward planetary stop and not turn backwards as it does in low. Then when the direct clutch comes on for 3rd gear the direct clutch engages and the intermediate sprag over runs. There is also a band in the transmission and its sole job is to hold the drum so that the sprag can't over run when the transmission is held in manual 2nd gear.

 

Dave,
Thank you so much for your reply, You have given me the confidence to attempt a "re"rebuild or at least fix what I screwed up!!! I'm betting I put the sprag in backwards like you mentioned.
I hate to be a bother but being a transmission illiterate I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this, If the purpose of the intermediate clutch is to stop the rotation of the forward drum via the intermediate sprag, Why would the sprag be relevant in M2 when the band is applied to stop the rotation of the forward drum? Can I also ask you what may have been damaged or what I should pay extra special attention to if the sprag is in backwards?
Thanks again, ALKID
(A little knowledge is dangerous)

 

I'm not sure because it seems like it would have 2nd if you put the transmission into that gear if the band was applying and holding the drum. I could be totally wrong and the transmission has some sort of internal leak, misplaced check ball under the valve body etc.

 

Your information is priceless, It's stuff you can't get from a book,
I'm now starting to think I'm barking up the wrong tree as I doubt both the intermediate sprag and belt have failed at the same time. Do you think its possible I'm missing 1st and not 2nd? I know it depends on gear ratio and tire size but it takes 3rd around 27 mph. at 3000 rpm.
I would like to buy you some beer or a bottle for helping me, I have Zelle, Paypal and a check book let me know whats best.
Thanks, Nick
I just had an after thought in between drinks!
Is it possible that something is forcing the forward drum to turn? For example something I did wrong or a seized up part???

 

The forward drum houses the forward clutch is it is possible that it could be burned up and welded but if that were the case it would be like having a trans brake in reverse because reverse uses the direct clutch to turn the sun shell.

I think that what I would do is get a copy of the ATSG manual for the E4OD and then very carefully take it apart starting with the removal of the valve body, note the positions of all of the check ***** based on your model year. This changes from year to year with some of them having more or fewer ***** and ***** in different places. Make sure that it is put together with the right combination of gaskets too because these also change.

if that all looks good then do an air check on the transmission. I think that you'll find the problem. If not then take apart the gear train looking for broken or missing sealing rings or something put together incorrectly.

Also ATSG has a book that shows nearly all of the change and updates that happened to the E4OD over the years and there are a bunch. It shows the changes in the ball locations too.

 

Well Dave,
I have learned a lot from you and I Thank You, In all honesty when I started this thread I didn't know what an intermediate sprag was or did, Just that it had something to do with 2nd gear due to it's name..
When I put it together last time I followed an ATSG book for an early 4R100 thinking it would be the same, Maybe that's where I went awry!!!
I'll take your advise and go through it with a fine tooth comb after I buy the right book and compare it to what I have.
One last question, How can I send you a few Bucks???
Thank for your time and sharing your knowledge, Nick

 

No money is necessary. The whole idea of forums like this one is to provide a space to freely share information. Hopefully some of what I wrote will be useful and you'll get your truck working again.

 

Search hard enough and you can get a free ATSG manual online.

 

The ATSG book is the best one out there, and the 4R100 *IS* the same.

 

This Forum rocks! It's my first ever and I'm amazed that people will take time out of their day to help other people (like me), It renews my faith.
How's this for a twist to the tale of the missing gear? I awoke this morning with a horrible revelation of sort's, In 2010 I used this vehicle to pick up my Son's car from Fort Campbell Army Base, He had hit a curb with his 91 Integra hand me down and I was bringing it back for repair.
I came up behind a tractor trailer pulling a hill out of Kentucky, He was heavy and had slowed to around 35 or 40 when the hazards came on. I decided to go around him and when the transmission down shifted the engine screamed, I let up on it and pulled it to manual 2, It was the same and I couldn't pass him. I was pulling a light weight trailer with a nothing car on it and had to drop back behind the truck and put the hazards on.
I now remember saying to my friend that was with me "The Suburban wouldn't even have dropped a gear passing this guy" (It was an 87 and I didn't trust it enough for a long trip).
My point is that this transmission must have been missing 2nd gear even prior to me rebuilding it, AND, Putting two and two together I've deduced that the torque converter probably detonated (the reason for rebuilding it) because it was constantly overloaded due to the fact it was always in too high a gear. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the price of bread but I'm hoping someone can make sense of it.
I was an engine rebuilder back in the day and I'm meticulous when it comes to rebuilding anything, Still can't believe I failed.
On a more important topic,
Mark, I see that you are in SE. Florida. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and all the people of Florida, I'll be sending Dave McLain's beer money to Samaritans Purse!!!

 

OMG, The Intermediate Sprag is good and installed correctly, It's also the last thing on the ATSG no 1-2 up-shift diagnosis checklist. Now I'm in trouble!!!
Before I took the transmission out I actuated both solenoids in drive and observed NO pressure drop on the line pressure gauge (KOER.), I also actuated them from under the truck and could hear them click (KOEO.). When I "finally" got it on the bench (thanks to the torsion bar keys/adjusters, Porta-Power and Oxy-Acetylene didn't cut it so I had to resort to the giant air chisel, AKA. Jack Hammer!!!) I checked the check ***** and pressurized the intermediate clutch with air and can hear the thud as it applies. I fell short of completely disassembling the valve bodies as I would have been extra cautious with them the last time, I will however take them apart today.
Don't laugh but my theory is that a hole wasn't drilled at the factory, I know It's a one in a million shot but let me tell you a story... In the 1980s we had a 301 Pontiac engine come through the door with a rod knock as most of them did if they were still running, when the crankshaft went on the grinder it was discovered that an oil hole hadn't been drilled from one of the main journals to a rod journal. Crazy thing was that it wasn't the one that was knocking, It still bothers me!
Finally a question!
The main separator plate has one or two less holes than the gaskets, one being central lube and the other inline with the manual valve towards the outside edge of the main valve body, Is this normal?
I read of a problem that occurred in April 1997 but mine was built in Dec. 1997, my plate has one half moon id. and part # F7TP-AA. Yeah TP, all the ones I found on line were F7TZ-AA.
Any and All thoughts are welcome, I'm going for a drink!

 

Apparently my main valve body requires 5 check ***** and not 4 due to the VB spacer plate having two holes and not one on the manual 2 valve circuit. My transmission came from the factory with 4, I took pictures when I took it apart seven years ago.
Symptoms of a missing "BS6" check ball are a 1-4 or 1-3-4 up shift, the article I read had no mention of manual 2 but I'm betting the check ball will fix that too.
I'll post the result when I get it back together and drive it down the road, I'll also try to find a link to the article.
Its going to be a big WOW if I went through all of this for a less than 10 cent check ball. (Expletive!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

As a shop foreman, most of the guys who worked under me always blamed the part/poor design/etc. The fact is, all this additional work was caused by you not knowing what you are doing.

Welcome to the group. When you have no clue what you are doing and too cheap to pay for someone to do it for you, you should expect stuff like this. Not that it happens to me everyday, but it's often enough to keep me humble. That is the learning curve we all go through so it's a badge of honor. Those that have not gone down this path either are lying or have never done anything in life.

The good thing is that you did not give up, you learned something, and you shared your failure so someone else can learn from.

 

I'm glad you stuck with it and got it figured out and fixed.