I have a 2000 E250 with 3.73 rear end, 5.4 L, and a 4r70w transmission. It has 52,000. I tow a 4300 lb trailer and when loaded probably 6,000lb. When towing on the flat I use overdrive and switch out on the hills or leave it out of overdrive when driving under 55. When I talk to some transmission techs they say I am nuts to tow in overdrive. Am I ok towing in overdrive as long as the transmission is not hunting constantly for a gear?

 

NEVER tow in overdrive. It will overheat the transmission and engine. The owners manual may say to do so but that is ford making sure there techs have work.

 

I must agree. Towing in OD will not win you any points in MPG either. The PCM will perceive the extra load and be more likely to set your system to open loop rich fuel mixture. In addition, your transmission will eat up horses & fuel trying to keep the sun gear band and conveter clutch activated. The sun gear band is a renowned Achille's heel of the 4R70W. I have found that even with 6000 pounds behind you in drive, things pretty much stay locked and that helps reduce heat concerns. Just run in drive and imagine you've got a reliable C6 under the floor.

 

I vote with pfogle. Towing in overdrive cost me $1800.00.

 

IMO if there is not a big load on the engine, do it, but if it is what seems to be the case thesre day, sell it and buy a competitors trek for serious work!

I have a E150 conversion, 4.6, and I thought I would overwork or dog the engine, but it works great.

If it's not lugging down, go for it. If you need more power, switch brands.

 

Lots of discussion on this topic in the towing forum. Many people say use OD if torque converter stays locked. Don't use OD if torque converter is regularly unlocking. Heat is the enemy of transmissions and running unlocked builds heat. Extra trans coolers also help out. Some prople get a trans temp gauge and judge their gear by that.

 

I have a '95 Clubwagon XLT with a 4R70W that I tow my racecar with. The van currently has 230,000+ miles on it, the vast majority towing the 4800 lbs trailer+car and another 1000 lbs of stuff in the van. I typically tow long distances (500 to 1000 miles each way for a race weekend, sometimes more, sometimes less) and _always_ tow in OD on the interstate. I use the OD Cancel button to downshift at the bottom of the steeper hills/mountains and climb those in 3rd, once at the top its back to OD. I have tried towing in 3rd and much prefer OD. If you are geared correctly you will get better fuel mileage, at higher speeds, in OD. I typically tow at 80~85 mph and average about 12 mpg. In 3rd 65~70 mph is about all you can stand and milage falls to about 10 mpg.

The only reason to cancel OD and tow in 3rd is if you are towing a load that is heavy enough or has enough aero drag that you cannot keep the torque converter clutch locked in OD at cruise. Otherwise towing in OD is just fine. There is no undue load on any of the transmission components in OD that would cause a failure (there is no "sun gear band"). However, if you are towing slow enough that you are lugging the motor in OD or if you can't keep the converter locked you should use 3rd. If the converter doesn't stay locked it will run the transmission too hot and cause a failure.

Just a couple of weeks ago I noticed the intermediate roller clutch began to occasionally let go on my van so I decided it was time to overhaul the transmission. After tear down and inspecting I found only three damaged parts, the roller clutch (the springs had let go as expected) and the reverse drum and sun gear shell. The reverse drum and sun gear shell lock together and where the lugs meet they were hammered pretty good. It is important to note that this is typical of any high mileage 4R70W. The overhaul consisted of a paper and rubber kit with sealing rings, a new 1-2 accumulator spring (a common failure on 4R70Ws), upgrading to the larger OD servo piston, replacing the band (it had a slightly dark streak in it) and replacing the intermediate roller clutch, reverse drum and sungear shell. I also installed a new EPC solenoid and torque converter (for piece of mind). I reused the clutches as they all looked like new.

Considering that this transmission has worked about as hard as you could work one for well over 200K miles, there was no sign of any problem other than those from normal use. The old myth that you can't tow in OD really comes from the early days of 4 speed transmissions where inadequate design and fragile parts cause premature failures anyway. Most any towing only hasened the failure of those early units.

Incidentally, for your reference, I own an AAMCO Transmission Center.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

Clubwagon, how often do you recommend changing the trans fluid? I know have 100k on the AOD, i have not towed since the new ECU. But the last time it could not hold 60mph in OD so i used 3rd and got 5 to 6 mpg... obviosly some things were terribly wrong.. but i think those issues are now gone..

Tranny oil I use is the cheap about 1.5 a quart.. should i disconnect the cooler line and empty about 5 out and put 5 new? how often should i do this?

another note.. ive been using this cheap tranny oil in my manual AWD eclipse... and it doesnt have a filter or anything just a big magnetic plug.. i change the oil in this every 6 to 10k. it always improves with new oil..

yohei

 

We do a transmission service on our Fleet Fords at every 20K miles. This includes new oil, filter. At every 40K we also flush them to remove all the fluid. As you know, when you drop the pan, you will not get all the fluid out. Originally we were doing the transmission services at every 30K but when driven hard and towing, it proved to be to long between intervals and we were loosing to many trannys. Since we changed to the 20K intervals two years ago we went from loosing 5 to 6 transmissions a year to 1 trans a year.

I follow what I have learned with our fleet and service my trans every 20K

 

furthermore, stay away from cheap oils / filters. We stick with factory - OEM. I lost an engine in my 99 Chev Suburban 2500 4x4 a year ago due to cheap aftermarket filters and oil used by the local QuickLube down the street.

 

For most vehicles the industry standard for automatics is 2 years/25,000 miles. For people that tow regularly I recommend once a year or every 20K miles whichever comes first. I serviced my van every year at the beginning of the racing season which works out to about 25K miles a year of towing. If I let it go any longer then I would start to get a little bit of shudder on converter lockup. Proof of how well this worked was how good a shape my 4R70W was in when I tore it down for the overhaul a couple of weeks ago.

As a comparison I used to have a Chevy van with a 4L60E in it. I put 200,000+ miles on it as well but rebuilt the transmission eight times. That's every 25,000 miles!

I highly recommend using quality ATF! A name brand like Valvoline, Chevron, etc... is good. AAMCO brand ATF is made by Exxon and is also good stuff and can be had for reasonable prices at Autozone. Cheap ATF will varnish quickly in heavy use and will cause a trans failure. You really don't need to flush most Ford truck transmissions. Both the 4R70W and E4OD/4R100W have drain plugs in the torque converters. By dropping the pan and draining the converter you will change as much fluid as you would in most any "power flush" service. That's the way I do mine.

Yohie, ditch the cheap ATF in your Eclips and go with some Redline MTL. Great stuff! You will love it.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

great, i will do that oil swap every year then... but it is true that many ford new manual trannys are using ATF fluid right? Thats why i switched from Mobile 1 gear oil to this cheap stuff... and just by the less viscosity oil... the tranny shifts much better.. i have used redline before it was expensive stuff.... i will use it for the race car but not my daily driver.. too much cost

my manual AWD tranny now has 230k or so... it has been installed in about 4 Eclipses along the years.. and eclipses are known for weak trans... I do double clutch all the time and never launch the car... daily driver has to be pampered u know

thanks guys.
yohei

 

Lots of modern manuals are using ATF these days. The M50D in the F150/Ranger/Explorer is just one of the more common ones. Its also common in transfer cases of 4x4 trucks too.

We build lots of manuals too and change most of them over to 5w30 synthetic motor oil. This would work fine in your Eclips and costs about half of what Redline MTL goes for. But you really can't beat MTL. I have been using it in my race and street cars for more than 20 years. You won't find anything better. Oh, and while its more expensive, you most likely won't ever have to change it. So there is some savings if you have been changing the ATF every year or so.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

HMMMM I can really use 5/30 Mobile 1 in my tranny???? is that better than cheap red ATF??? there are so many choices and specific oils.. but it looks like more and more can be used in alot of different places!

I love Mobile 1 so... I guess Ill put that in my eclipse next time.

The problem with the manual in my car is that, no matter how i drive when I dump the old oil.. there is tons of metal shaving.. i wonder where it is coming from.. but so far its smooth and reliable... im sure if i left any kind of oil in there for prolonged time it will be full of metal flakes and kill the tranny...... I wish i could install a oil pump and filter on them... along with oil cooler..

these manuals can be so much better.. does the true race one lap cars.. or actual endrurance race cars have these oil cooler, oil filter for tranny??

it doesnt seem like that hard of a modification. and it would really give me a peace of mind!

in the transfer case and LSD rear end, Ive continued to use the really thick gear oil.. Mobile 1.... if you think motor oil will work well there too.. I may use 5/30 mobile all around!

 

Yes, use the 5/30 synthetic in place of the cheap red ATF, you will like it much better.

The little metal shards are off the engagement teeth. Thats pretty common in most manual transmissions.

On our endurace cars we always ran a pump and cooler on the transmission. Its pretty easy to do. Just install a fitting at a low place on the case and run a braded line to a pump mounted low nearby. From there run braded lines to/from a standard oil cooler mounted infront of the radiator and put the return line fitting on the top of the case above the geartrain. You can install an external, spin-on filter mount between the pump and cooler if you want. We never bothered with a filter. This really helps keep the trans temps down which helped synchro performance and bearing life.

Stick with the gear oil for the transfer case and rear end. You need it for the hypoid gears.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT