. . . and fenders coming down on tires on the big bumps.

We don't know really anything about the trailer, so the condition is up to @StazJ to evaluate. We do know that, per @StazJ, @StazJ is:

- about 1,000 pounds overloaded for the trailer
- about 2,000 pounds overloaded for the hitch
- about 3,000 pounds overloaded for the truck

We also know that @StazJ is at least 800 pounds overloaded based on the manual.

All of this in a 18 year old truck whose history and condition is unknown to all of us.

I also haven't yet heard what the trailer braking situation is.

If it were me, I'd take two trips. I know that is an extra round trip, but think of this:

230 miles x 2 ways = 460 miles
460 miles / 60MPH = 7.6 hours

Do I think @StazJ will spend more than 7.6 hours fixing something if he does this journey with the 8,000 pound trailer? Yes.

1,800 + 6,200 = 8,000
6,200 / 2 = 3,100
1,800 + 3,100 = 4,900

Do I think he has good odds of not having to fix anything towing two trips at 4,900 pounds (so, half loads) each? Yes

 

Those 800/1000/3000 overloaded numbers you are screeching about are absolutely nothing for a half ton truck and trailer. They are not in the range of "things will break in short order" as you ignorantly portray. They are in the range of "between the extra wear and tear and reduced margin for mishaps you should step up to a bigger truck and 10k trailer if this is gonna be a weekly thing". But of course you don't have the experience to realize that so you're screeching about ratings and whatnot.

Fenders and tire contact will be a non issue as long as neither the truck isn't some bro'd out douchemobile on rims with dumb offsets

Everyone who's done stupid stuff knows that if there's any appreciable distance involved you're better off taking one very overloaded trip slow, perhaps federal/state highways rather than interstate, than taking two trips near the limit.

Pearl clutching about the vehicle's age and condition might pull at some of the dumber heart strings in this particular subforum where the average person seems to be towing a 2020+ camper with a 2020+ truck but what this comes down to is whether or not OP is so retarded as to drive it in a manner that causes problems. As long as OP drives conservatively and perhaps pays attention to the temperature gauge on grades and slows down for big bumps he will be fine. And if he is incapable of that then cutting the load in half at the expense of doubling the road time with which he has to make dumb mistakes is a lateral move.

I thought I addressed your bit about the hitch last time but I guess I didn't so I'll do so now. That subject is irrelevent. Any proper 2" hitch for an F150 is more than capable of dealing with an 8k trailer. The number of scrappers driving around in trucks with frames bent at the wheel arch and a trailer hitched to the still straight hitch speaks volumes as to where the weakest links are in half ton trucks. Heck, I've pulled 8k with medium uni-body SUVs and while not stupid proof it was fine (and the hitch was the least of my worries). Where people get into problems with hitches is the 1-1/4 car hitches that have stupid swoops in them to clear exhaust or putting light duty ball mounts in 1-ton trucks with 1k+ hitches and then bottoming out hard on something. As someone who's bent a couple hitches doing stuff other than towing trailers. I can say from experience that the hitch is absolutely the least of his concern. The only reason it was brought up is because the manufacturer slaps a rating on it and that acts like a magnet for people who are capable of doing basic math but have no experience doing dumb stuff to give them a frame of reference for what will work and what won't. What OP needs to be concerned with is loading the trailer in a manner that leaves him available room for the suspension to cycle on all three relevant axles.

 

@StazJ what kind of wood is this? Plywood pallets? a building kit? Have you proved out how your truck and trailer handle at lesser loads or is the next biggest load you've moved with this combo 4k or something?


If the the cargo is a good fit you might consider renting the Uhaul 2-axle landscaping trailer for a day and $40. That's a trailer that, regardless of the rating, is well proven to be happy at 9k and would potentially you a lot of room to put more weight on the trailer rather than the truck.

 

Something does not sound right with your numbers. Are you certain you don’t have the 3200 in kilograms rather than pounds? Look at your trailer data plate (it has the VIN on it). Here’s an example of a Big Tex utility trailer:

https://www.rbauction.com/pdp/2022-b...ailer/12006518

(It is the fifth picture if this link doesn’t take you to the right place.). 3178 kilos = 7000 pounds.

I think you might have a 14000 GVWR trailer. But I hope you can post a picture of your trailer’s data plate and prove me wrong!\\

 

Opinions vary.

I'm not willing to sit behind the safety of my keyboard and tell someone "new to heavy towing" to go ahead and overload it. You are. It provides perspective for all of us.

Either way, @StazJ hasn't logged back in since before Post #10, so everything after that is likely just us yapping in the wind.

 

Back before everyone was making payments on a larger truck 8k behind a half ton would have been just another unremarkable workday for a farmer driving a half ton.

I'm not just sitting behind a keyboard. I do stuff that is proportionally dumber than what OP is/was asking about. That's a Cincinnati #2. Look up the weight if you want. I'm telling you that based on my experience if the driver doesn't behave exceptionally poorly 8k behind a half ton is not gonna be an issue. Heck, the new half tons are rated for 10k+ and new midsize trucks are in the 7s. A slightly older half ton that isn't rated for 8 because it doesn't have the ponies to pull the grade in the SAE test will be fine.

 

Proportionally dumber here too

the OP isn’t doing anything that us county boys don’t do on the regular. His biggest risk is overheating his trans.

2x rated towing:

that’s in excess of 25k behind a 2004 f250 v10 rated for a little more than 10k. Not a one time deal, did 8 loads last year, 7 the year before and lost count before that. Truck is fine. Hammer down and let it buck.

Full rated load:

this is around 8k behind a half ton. Handles great, just balance the load to control tongue weight and set the cruise at 65. Truck never cared. Pulls easier than the camper by a lot. Trailer is likely overloaded. Not by a lot but probably by some.

The point above about confusing KG with Lbs is a valid point. He may have a 14k trailer. If that’s the case it will have brakes. He should have a brake controller installed. If that’s the case then he is just in the realm of going easy and not doing anything too stupid.

JMO. I don’t preach what I practice, generally. In this case I just think he’s probably going to be fine if he takes it easy.
YMMV.

 

Apparently you have (so far) escaped the rewards of your actions.

 

the “rewards of your actions” is hardly the foregone conclusion some
proclaim it to be.

id argue that someone new to towing is probably safer pulling a load like that than I am. I’m not careless by any stretch, but someone who is unaccustomed to pulling a heavy load is likely to be more careful because they aren’t used to it.

7k-8k behind a half ton is just a Tuesday for me.

 

Eh, I don't think experience matters all that much as long as you've got some. There are some people who "get it" and there are some people, the hard on equipment types, who don't. Though obviously accumulating experience stepping up to any given size load is better than not.

When you're outside the manufacturer guaranteed zone within which they guarantee high quality performance you need to know what you're doing in the most literal and fundamental sense because arranging factors to get good results is now wholly your responsibility. And this applies to all sorts of stuff, not just trucks, trailers and towing. And of course, there's always a point where conflicting requirements result in impossibility and you need to have the self control to call it in those situations.

Any idiot can make sure all the numbers are good, get in the driver's seat and send it. Hence why this is such popular advice here on the internet where most people want to project stupidity onto everyone else. But you leave a ton of capacity on the table by doing that.

 

Seems like a bit of a firestorm here. At the same time, I hear of lots of experience towing heavy. This is different than the OP's "new to heavy towing".

Maybe OP, after some experience, will join the tow-heavy-all-the-time club. Maybe this will scare the bejesus out of him and he'll never tow heavy again. Either way, I think he's wise for asking for advice first. Now he's got some.

I'm not saying it can't be done, nor that anyone here is right or wrong. I simply gave my suggestion just like everyone else . . . but in the process didn't target anyone else when I did it.

Would I want to be nearby when a novice in an 18+ year old 150,000+ mile unknown-conditions truck decides to tow 160% of its rating that is a trailer at 125% of its rating? No.

Have I been around this in my life and not seen issues? Yes.

Have I been around this in my life and seen issues? Yes.

I don't think we know enough of the OP's skill level nor the vehicles' condition to give substantial advice one way or the other, so I'll stick with what I said earlier:

. . . and . . .

Regardless, if OP does come back, he's certainly got a lot of perspective in this thread.

 

My perspective.
NO. Do not do it.

You are overloading the truck, the trailer, the hitch, and everything else. You are in an OLD truck that we have no idea of the condition of. You might have a lot of frame rust, hitch rust, etc. You are not just hitting the limits, you are blowing right through them.

I suspect the reason for the 5k tow limit and 500 lb tongue weight is weight distribution. Put too much weight on the back without a weight distributing hitch, and you can make it so your front tires won't have as much traction as they need or can cause them to hydroplane more easily.

Make 2-3 trips.

I hear a lot of people say "go for it". My perspective, as someone who was rear-ended by an overload truck...DON'T.
"it's something we county boys do every day" Yeah, my cousins say (said) the same thing. It's also a reason about half of them have seriously hurt, have seriously hurt someone else, or been killed doing the stuff you are talking about.

Saying you can do it one time is like saying you can drive drunk one time and you will be okay.

Be smart, tow within the rating of your equipment. Don't endanger others just because it inconveniences you.

 

I’d be inclined to agree with you if the ratings weren’t so dreadfully arbitrary.

When the F150 went aluminum, it didn’t gain 1,000 lbs of capability, it lost 1,000 lbs of GVWR to maintain a specific payload target. A 4 wheel drive f150 has a GVWR about 300 lbs higher than a 2 wheel drive. Why? Because they don’t want a payload rating that high on a 2wd f150. Same thing with the lariat and platinums. They get a higher GVWR so that they can carry their target payload. Apply a platinum 4x4 GVWR to a 2wd XL and you have a payload that competes with an F250 … and we can’t have that.

Our 2004 f250 has a conventional tow rating of 500/5000 and 1000/10000. Why, because the hitch they put on it is rated to 10k. No other reason.

GVWR, payload and tow ratings have more to do with marketing than they do with actual vehicle capabilities. That’s why some of us don’t live and die by the ratings in the book. They are just too arbitrary.

 

here is the thing. When you have the accident, and you will at some point, people are going to hear “what was the GVWR of the vehicle?” “What was the GVWR of the axles?” How much were you towing? Are you a licensed professional engineer with the appropriate knowledge to sign off on these rating you chose? What education and knowledge of automotive structural engineering do you have that allows you to determine how much the vehicle can safely handle? What calculations did you perform? What was your testing methodology? Etc.

the thing is, unless you have the knowledge, authority and can back up your ratings of “what it can handle” with knowledge and calculation to prove beyond any doubt that you are right, it will mean absolutely nothing. In fact, because you knew what the manufacturer’s ratings were and “blatently disregarded them”, you are setting yourself up for a heap of trouble.

professionally, I examine, evaluate, and analyze what goes wrong using root cause analysi (think NTSB or CSB, but for a different industry). Some of what I do looks at human performance, both at the individual level, and at the organizational level. When I see what is written on these forums, I see both individual error, and I see “group think” because we have people just piling on saying “it will be fine” without anyone actually looking at the vehicle or doing any real calculations.

In my industry, people die, kill others or if they are lucky, merely cause hundreds of thousands, millions, or even billions of dollars of economic damage because they take shortcuts and because it gets the work done faster, management and supervisors allow it. When it does cause a problem, managers are quick to blame the individual, and often overlook the culture aspect that drove the poor decision in the first place. Because they ignore it, it will keep happening.

When we looked at the f250, truck says up to 14,000 lbs conventional towing capacity. In reality, it was much lower than that. Because of our configuration and options, our truck weighed in at 8500 lbs. add people, dogs, etc. and that weight goes to around 9k. 10k GVWR. Legally, our truck could tow a 6,666 lb trailer due to GVWR restrictions (15 percent tongue weight, 1000 lbs between loaded and GVWR means over 1,000 lbs of payload remained.

Would it fail if Imput a 7,000 lb trailer on the back? Probably not, but I can’t know for sure because I don’t know fords reasoning to assign that GVWR or what components might be impaired if I overloaded it. This is especially true as the truck gets older.

 

Jesus ****ing Christ. I hope you don't wonder why people hate "experts". Your PE head is so far up your PE *** you don't know which way is up.

For someone who deals in this stuff professionally you sure are ignorant of how things typically go down. If some weekend warrior hauling his big camper flattens a car and its occupants and is at fault for doing so insurance will pay out. If they don't have millions of dollars of assets that'll be the end of it. If they do they'll get sued. That will be the end of it. Nobody will check a door tag. Nobody will check a tire rating. Because none of that stuff matters since based on the facts there's basically no ambiguity as to how they'll decide who to pin blame on. Either the car ****ed up or the truck did. And if the truck was massively overloaded and couldn't stop or whatever that'll get treated the same way as if the driver was stupid and didn't. All this **** is real simple. The insurance industry and courts have it set up that way on purpose because they don't want to have to investigate ****. You are intentionally over complicating this in order to peddle fear and seem important.

Slimy lawyers, slimy accident reconstruction experts, and everyone else in your industry only get involved when there's big money and big ambiguity on the table. Like if some employee working for a company A at a mine, airport, whatever (i.e. not a public way where all the usual rules and laws about assigning blame don't automatically apply) flattens another employee for company B on site. The scumbags have to get involved to determine whether company A, company B or company C who owns the facility and hired A and B. Obviously this is just a hypothetical example, but the point is that you and the stuff you do is not relevant.


Typical credential garbage that people of your ilk spew. Whether you want to admit it or not slowly and steadily A/B testing and incrementing the load and/or driving conditions until the maximum bounds of what is reasonable is a perfectly valid testing method, and frequently how things were done back in the old days before we plopped a bunch of two bits in office chairs with computers and simulation software in front of them (and I say that as one of said two-bits). The old methods, while laborious, deliver perfectly valid results. Which is why when things really matter, calculations get fact-checked by actual testing.


Cool, so your opinion is just as jaded from sampling bias as a drug trafficking or child abuse detective's is. You are just about the last person on earth who should be weighing in on this subject at least for the purposes of what the general population can and can't be trusted to do. You think that gives you authority on the subject but it's the opposite.

And here you are, too steeped in your PE circle-jerk groupthink to see that running numbers, official ratings, etc, etc. aren't end all be all.


You complain about nobody running numbers and then go on to use an F250 rolling at 10k towing 7k as example of a setup that might be kinda suspect. This is why nobody takes you people seriously. And with opinions like that you don't deserve to be taken seriously.

Your average 99-04 of '05+ F250 with a job box full of crap in the bed, a few sticks of something on the ladder rack, two big guys in the cab and a skid steer and a couple attachments on a 10k trailer is in that ballpark. This is a combination that has for the last 25yr been proven to be generally acceptable for commercial use on public roads day and night, rain or shine and with all manner of employees of questionable decision making skill at the wheel. And yet here you are, telling us that's kinda suspect.