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Do you see a pointer on the top side that you can shine the light on? Leave the distributor just a tiny bit loose so you can move it, and try to start it. If it tries but kicks back, tweak the dist one way a little bit. If it gets worse try it the other way.
P.S. I just thought about it. If you did the thumb method and then turned it to TDC #1, that white mark if it was any good would be near the pointer. This needs more investigation.
I think I had the plug wires wrong 1 and 5 I think. But now, I can hear the start clicking but nothing is happening. I have V on the b/w wire when the key is turned.
edit: It did start to turn for half a sec the last time I tried to. I had the timing light hooked up to see if the plug was firing, it did not.
Last edited by mikelduh; Aug 18, 2024 at 07:52 PM.
I think we should start oveer to make sure the motor is at TDC on #1
Pull plug and hold finger over plug hole and have someone tap the key till you finger gets pushed off.
As DaveF said look for that white mark on the pulley and see if it lines up with a pointer on the timing gear cover.
It should line up with 0 if not turn the motor by hand so it dose.
Now note on the cap where the #1 plug wire is installed.
Pop the cap, dose the rotor point to the same place on the cap as #1 plug wire is?
If it is close tune the dist. so it points to the plug wire in the cap.
If the rotor is pointing to the other side it can be 1 of 2 things.
Either 1 you dropped the dist. in 180* off or 2 you did not have it on the compression stroke when setting the motor to TDC either before or now.
If you think you have it on TDC compression stroke now move the plug wires so #1 is where the rotor is pointing to now and see if it will start.
Oh BTW if you are 180* off when trying to start it will back fire up the carb.
Now when you say you get just a click and it dose not turn over or crank that is a battery connection issue so you will need to go back over them and grounds.
Good luck
Dave ----
There are 2 sets of timing marks. Personally I have never used the ones on the timing gear cover. The newer set is below the alternator. The white mark on the pulley mostly likely is for the newer set of marks.
I will try to find a photo. See Post 5
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1044882-am-i-blind-where-are-my-timing-marks.html#post10030154
I think we should start oveer to make sure the motor is at TDC on #1
Pull plug and hold finger over plug hole and have someone tap the key till you finger gets pushed off.
As DaveF said look for that white mark on the pulley and see if it lines up with a pointer on the timing gear cover.
It should line up with 0 if not turn the motor by hand so it dose.
Now note on the cap where the #1 plug wire is installed.
Pop the cap, dose the rotor point to the same place on the cap as #1 plug wire is?
If it is close tune the dist. so it points to the plug wire in the cap.
If the rotor is pointing to the other side it can be 1 of 2 things.
Either 1 you dropped the dist. in 180* off or 2 you did not have it on the compression stroke when setting the motor to TDC either before or now.
If you think you have it on TDC compression stroke now move the plug wires so #1 is where the rotor is pointing to now and see if it will start.
Oh BTW if you are 180* off when trying to start it will back fire up the carb.
Now when you say you get just a click and it dose not turn over or crank that is a battery connection issue so you will need to go back over them and grounds.
Good luck
Dave ----
OKAY! Yeah the starter was a ground issue. So I found what might be an actual timing mark? Instead of the notch. So I started over like you said, got #1 to pop a cork. I looked in the hole, brought it up all the way to the top and that when I saw the thin mark, a little past the zero and the notch was on the under side. Tower was 180 from where I had 1 marked. So swapped the wires, got ‘em in firing order. She fired up but I think it backfired out of the carb like said? Like harsh puff. Feels like progress though. I’ll get on it more tomorrow.
Quote: So I found what might be an actual timing mark? Instead of the notch
The notch is used with the pipe that sticks up. Some sort of diagnostic tool the dealership had, they would stick something in the pipe that would read the notch.
Maybe someone else can explain it better.
Seems like you are making progress, it helps to find the correct timing marks.
Good luck, Jim
Quote: So I found what might be an actual timing mark? Instead of the notch
The notch is used with the pipe that sticks up. Some sort of diagnostic tool the dealership had, they would stick something in the pipe that would read the notch.
Maybe someone else can explain it better.
Seems like you are making progress, it helps to find the correct timing marks.
Good luck, Jim
Back when I had a shop one of the equipment had a probe you put in the hole, like a magnet but not if you know what I mean.
With the other leads hooked up to the motor and a sniffer in the tail pipe it would run a test so you could see how good the motor was or was not and it would give you a print out of the test.
That probe I believe was the way the machine checked timing, It also had the clamp that went over the #1 plug wire like a timing light and had a light so you could check timing if it did not have the hole for the probe and you then entered the timing number into the system.
It would check RPM, timing, vacuum, charging system, compression by dropping 1 hole at a time, and 2 gas at the time from tail pipe.
It was before computers really came out for checking cars & trucks as they did not have computers either but people did not trust the print out if something was flagged.
What was good is after the fix you could run a 2nd test, have it pass and give the customer that print out also to prove it was fixed.
So yea that hole was for a probe for timing, think of it like a crank trigger for #1 hole.
Dave ----
So I lined the mark up. Confirmed rotor is pointing at tower one with #1 cyl. at TDC. Reconfirmed this twice. It’ll crank and run, high idle 1000rpm or so, drop to 5-600 which is what it should idle at, then die. Is it the choke? Did I get this part right?
Have you checked the timing when it is running at 1000 RPM?
Thinking it would be up around 30* BTDC with vacuum hooked up.
You can try and advance the timing with out a light to see if that helps.
You can also use a vacuum gauge but think it needs to be down around idle speed?
If the choke comes off to soon before the motor has any heat it can stall.
What is the carb idle mix screws set to? If way off it can stall.
As a start from lightly seated turn them 2 turns out.
Dave ----
Have you checked the timing when it is running at 1000 RPM?
Thinking it would be up around 30* BTDC with vacuum hooked up.
You can try and advance the timing with out a light to see if that helps.
You can also use a vacuum gauge but think it needs to be down around idle speed?
If the choke comes off to soon before the motor has any heat it can stall.
What is the carb idle mix screws set to? If way off it can stall.
As a start from lightly seated turn them 2 turns out.
Dave ----
Still idles high then shuts off. Its set as far as TDC on #1 and the rotor lining up. Is there a base setting for the vacuum advance? And do I just leave it off/open while I’m setting the timing with it running? I’ve looked over a few diagrams but am still unsure of the idle mix screw. Any help from these photos? And is there anything else I need to do with the ECU while I’m doing this? Or checking any other connections?
EDIT: I read that the timing should be set with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged.
So I got it to stay running. Set it at 10° BTDC. But its still throttling up, idling, throttling up idling. It’s running HOT. Turned a twig to embers in about a min. It was making a loud air sound so I poke around and found a hole. So I guess a new exh manifold is on the list. But any other reason why it goes up and down? Air leak/crack Close up for us visually impaired
Still idles high then shuts off. Its set as far as TDC on #1 and the rotor lining up. Is there a base setting for the vacuum advance? And do I just leave it off/open while I’m setting the timing with it running? I’ve looked over a few diagrams but am still unsure of the idle mix screw. Any help from these photos? And is there anything else I need to do with the ECU while I’m doing this? Or checking any other connections? Are you talking about the feedback computer or the spark controller on the fender (ICM) when talking ECU?
If computer then till running good nothing at this time.
EDIT: I read that the timing should be set with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged.Yes and at idle as a high idle speed can add advance. The red screw is the fast idle speed screw and it is sitting on the choke ramp so fast idle is on.
The green screw is the normal idle speed screw and you set that when the motor is up to temp and off fast idle. The yellow screw is the idle mixture screw. This is adjusted when motor is up to temp and idle speed set.
Using a vacuum gauge you want to get the highest reading you can get and still have a smooth running motor.
I see 2 issues, a open vacuum nipple that needs to be plugged when making adjustments and the cap that is cracked, replace it.
I like to use short vacuum hose with a screw or bolt in the end as they last longer than the caps and dont crack as fast. I am seeing a feed back carb with a plate over where a solenoid would bolt up. I dont know how this will runas the carb should have the solenoid bolted up and a computer to control it. I also dont know if this could be why the idle goes up and down?
See my replies above the pictures
Originally Posted by mikelduh
So I got it to stay running. Set it at 10° BTDC. But its still throttling up, idling, throttling up idling. It’s running HOT. Turned a twig to embers in about a min. It was making a loud air sound so I poke around and found a hole. So I guess a new exh manifold is on the list. But any other reason why it goes up and down? Air leak/crack Close up for us visually impaired
Yes timing is set with the vacuum hose off and plugged, idle speed set and motor up to temp.
Then reset idle and then adjust the idle mixture.
You may want to look closer at that crack as I dont think that is on the EXH manifold but on the intake manifold.
It looks to be above the parting line of the 2 manifolds. If it is the intake it can run lean and hot.
If you spray that crack when running does it smooth out?
I had a non-Ford straight six crack the exh manifold in the same area and caused a vacuum leak. Mine was on the backside but you could heat the exh leak.
Dave ----
Yes timing is set with the vacuum hose off and plugged, idle speed set and motor up to temp.
Then reset idle and then adjust the idle mixture.
You may want to look closer at that crack as I dont think that is on the EXH manifold but on the intake manifold.
It looks to be above the parting line of the 2 manifolds. If it is the intake it can run lean and hot.
If you spray that crack when running does it smooth out?
I had a non-Ford straight six crack the exh manifold in the same area and caused a vacuum leak. Mine was on the backside but you could heat the exh leak.
Dave ----
I’ll try spraying it. But it spits a hot stream of air when the truck it running. There was a solenoid on the front where that screw is, but it was part of the feedback system yeah? Would it still work if I hooked it back up, what would be controlling it? Or would it make sense to get a non feedback carb? That cap shot off when I struggling to get it to stay running lol. It’s back on, and I might do what you said with the hose and bolts because the caps that were there originally just peeled off in pieces when I replace them.
I’ll try spraying it. But it spits a hot stream of air when the truck it running. There was a solenoid on the front where that screw is, but it was part of the feedback system yeah? Would it still work if I hooked it back up, what would be controlling it? Or would it make sense to get a non feedback carb? That cap shot off when I struggling to get it to stay running lol. It’s back on, and I might do what you said with the hose and bolts because the caps that were there originally just peeled off in pieces when I replace them.
It looks to me you are beyond the point of going back to original with the computer. Every tiny little piece will have to be put back for the computer to work correctly. And the computer controlled everything. So thinking you can put back one little piece and it would work is a false hope. You have started the lobotomy, you need to complete it with a HEI distributor and a China knock-off carb.
It looks to me you are beyond the point of going back to original with the computer. Every tiny little piece will have to be put back for the computer to work correctly. And the computer controlled everything. So thinking you can put back one little piece and it would work is a false hope. You have started the lobotomy, you need to complete it with a HEI distributor and a China knock-off carb.
Oh yeah, I’m 100% down the rabbit hole. I just mean the solenoid on the front of the carb getting hooked back up. So a non feedback carb is the answer? Or would this one just act mechanical without the solenoid since the cpu has been lobotomized.
Oh yeah, I’m 100% down the rabbit hole. I just mean the solenoid on the front of the carb getting hooked back up. So a non feedback carb is the answer? Or would this one just act mechanical without the solenoid since the cpu has been lobotomized.
I was trying to figure out what solenoid and the light went off - the feed back solenoid on the front side of the carb.
I would put it back on as I dont think that gasket is cutting it. You just leave it unplugged as there wont be anything to plug into.
That may fix the idle up / down till you get a non-feed back carb. You want one for a 80 - 82 300 to be safe it is not a feed back.
On the manifold leak if you feel air being pushed out then I guess it is the EXH manifold.
If you dont mind doing a little more work for a little more power might look into the EFI EXH manifolds being you have to replace the manifold anyway.
That is what I did as my log manifold I think was for a van or car and the head pipe I bought would not fit.
You can use the log intake and factory non-feed back carb but will need some "fixing" to make work.
There is a post I started when I did mine years ago but if you go that route start a new post and I / we can walk you through what has to be done.
It is not hard just takes time to do it rights and depending on the carb how the choke gets hooked up.
Dave ----
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