Bleeding the clutch system UPDATE
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
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Bleeding the clutch system UPDATE
Hi all
Ive replaced nearly every component on my clutch system, most recently I did the slave cylinder. It is really failing to bleed completely, I tried bleeding it at the bleed screw multiple times for hours on end to no avail. I bought a manual vacuum pump from harbor freight to bleed at the master cylinder, but there are two holes inside the master cylinder that are both so small I can’t get the cone head bits for the vacuum kit in them. I settled using a suction cup fitting that covers the entire bottom of the master cylinder. I pumped and got good vacuum, but when I pulled it off, all I did was suck out all the fluid in the master cylinder. I’m not sure what I am doing wrong?? Is there a bleed screw I can ad to the slave cylinder as opposed to having that weird hexagon set screw instead? It’s not even a real bleeder screw. I assume not for how shallow the hole is. What am I doing wrong reverse bleeding from the master cylinder? I even sanded down and cleaned the cone ends and they’re still too big to fit in the master cylinder holes? I have a steel braided hydraulic line so I’m not sure if that makes a difference somehow
Update:
My clutch is still very bad, it doesn't full return when I let off the clutch and I struggle to put it in gear if my foot is to the floor on the clutch. Sometimes I have to pump the clutch a few times so it slips into gear. It also wont go into reverse without grinding, or if i go from first to reverse quick enough it crunches but only a little. This has sort of been an on-going issue since may and all my research says that the bubbles will work its way out of the system eventually but I don't see that happening soon. If anything my clutching appears to have gotten worse. Should I take the little rubber shoe out of my master cylinder? Would that allow bubble to escape easier or something?
Ive replaced nearly every component on my clutch system, most recently I did the slave cylinder. It is really failing to bleed completely, I tried bleeding it at the bleed screw multiple times for hours on end to no avail. I bought a manual vacuum pump from harbor freight to bleed at the master cylinder, but there are two holes inside the master cylinder that are both so small I can’t get the cone head bits for the vacuum kit in them. I settled using a suction cup fitting that covers the entire bottom of the master cylinder. I pumped and got good vacuum, but when I pulled it off, all I did was suck out all the fluid in the master cylinder. I’m not sure what I am doing wrong?? Is there a bleed screw I can ad to the slave cylinder as opposed to having that weird hexagon set screw instead? It’s not even a real bleeder screw. I assume not for how shallow the hole is. What am I doing wrong reverse bleeding from the master cylinder? I even sanded down and cleaned the cone ends and they’re still too big to fit in the master cylinder holes? I have a steel braided hydraulic line so I’m not sure if that makes a difference somehow
Update:
My clutch is still very bad, it doesn't full return when I let off the clutch and I struggle to put it in gear if my foot is to the floor on the clutch. Sometimes I have to pump the clutch a few times so it slips into gear. It also wont go into reverse without grinding, or if i go from first to reverse quick enough it crunches but only a little. This has sort of been an on-going issue since may and all my research says that the bubbles will work its way out of the system eventually but I don't see that happening soon. If anything my clutching appears to have gotten worse. Should I take the little rubber shoe out of my master cylinder? Would that allow bubble to escape easier or something?
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
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From: Angier, NC
What is this rubber shoe you talk of?
Is it the large washer type thing? If so I would as the fluid may not be covering the bottom of the master.
Have you checked the firewall for flex and cracks?
Have you driven the truck at all or this is just what happens in the drive?
Dave ----
Is it the large washer type thing? If so I would as the fluid may not be covering the bottom of the master.
Have you checked the firewall for flex and cracks?
Have you driven the truck at all or this is just what happens in the drive?
Dave ----
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 180
Likes: 10
The big rubber cup inside the master cylinder that you put in with the cap, it seems luck air would never be able to escape with that thing
The only broken bit on the fire wall is near the emergency break but I repaired that already
I can drive the drive but it stuggles to up shift and down shift when I use the clutch, I have better luck float shifting
The only broken bit on the fire wall is near the emergency break but I repaired that already
I can drive the drive but it stuggles to up shift and down shift when I use the clutch, I have better luck float shifting
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
Likes: 4,123
From: Angier, NC
I would pop that rubber thing out to make sure the master has fluid in it.
They also say to get it out and drive in over bumpy roads.
The shaking works the air up the line to the master.
Someone also said taping on the slave & line with a small hammer also helps before the road drive.
Dave ----
They also say to get it out and drive in over bumpy roads.
The shaking works the air up the line to the master.
Someone also said taping on the slave & line with a small hammer also helps before the road drive.
Dave ----
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,667
Likes: 1,159
From: Tolland, CT
Not sure if this helps but,
https://www.google.com/search?q=How+...hrome&ie=UTF-8
I see one guy used the Motive Power bleeder back in 2004.
See what adaptor you need for the clutch master cylinder.
Here's another one, seems he put the system in a bucket of fluid and bleed it.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...e-no-more.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=How+...hrome&ie=UTF-8
I see one guy used the Motive Power bleeder back in 2004.
See what adaptor you need for the clutch master cylinder.
Here's another one, seems he put the system in a bucket of fluid and bleed it.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...e-no-more.html
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,984
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From: Virginia
The big rubber cup inside the master cylinder that you put in with the cap, it seems luck air would never be able to escape with that thing
The only broken bit on the fire wall is near the emergency break but I repaired that already
I can drive the drive but it stuggles to up shift and down shift when I use the clutch, I have better luck float shifting
The only broken bit on the fire wall is near the emergency break but I repaired that already
I can drive the drive but it stuggles to up shift and down shift when I use the clutch, I have better luck float shifting
A lot of things to go wrong with this experiment. I know on my diesel, the slave came with a plastic strap to hold it retracted. Even then it was tough to get in place. Then later I took it off without the strap and I thought I would never get it back in place, the slave is very hard to retract by hand.
And then I do not know if the line would cooperate and let you fish the slave up high into the engine compartment.
But you would think if the bleeder screw was high up, then it would bleed the air out.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,316
Likes: 1,243
The rubber cup is important. If not attached to the cap when you remove it pull it out. There should be no fluid in the cup and no cracks or leaks. Once the cup is removed fill the master reservoir to the fill mark. Do not overfill. Carefully replace the rubber cup and cap. The cup should just fit in without displacing any fluid in the reservoir, taking up the air volume in the reservoir. With rubber cup and cap tightly on you should be able to pump the clutch up eventually. Air will work it's way up and out. Your braided line is not stock. I wonder if it can handle the pressure without expanding? That would reduce the throw. I always fill the slave before connecting it to the line. There could be some air in the bottom of the line but it will work it's way out. You can't have any high points that can trap air. Sloping up from the slave to the master. You can reduce the amount of air at the end of the line if the reservoir is low, less static pressure on the line and it will drip less with the cap on. After you connect the line to a filled slave, top off the master and start pumping to purge air. Pump it until it returns on its own. Then drive it. I think I posted the driving method before?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 180
Likes: 10
Hi all,
I bled the master cylinder and the slave cylinder a different way, more akin to how the newer models are bled. I also found a crack in the fire wall where whenever i would press the clutch, the panel connect the clutch master cylinder and brake booster flexed. I welded the panel with a few tacks to the main firewall and now its solid. However, the way I bled it this way was the way my chiltons manual told me to bled the system for newer trucks. It says to basically removew the slave cylinder from the line and the truck and stick the line into a bottle of brake fluid. I then took out the slave cylinder and submerged the inlet hole into a bowl of brake fluid. I pulled and pushed in the piston and when I would push it out, some bubbles came out. I replaced the whole system making sure no air got in, the slave cylinder being extremely hard to replace since I tried to replace it without the strap that keeps it in place. I got in the truck and had less clutch response and when I started it, I had the clutch in and it was in gear and even with the pedal down all the way it still moved. Maybe I need a new clutch? I have an srod 4 speed, what size clutch should go in it?
I bled the master cylinder and the slave cylinder a different way, more akin to how the newer models are bled. I also found a crack in the fire wall where whenever i would press the clutch, the panel connect the clutch master cylinder and brake booster flexed. I welded the panel with a few tacks to the main firewall and now its solid. However, the way I bled it this way was the way my chiltons manual told me to bled the system for newer trucks. It says to basically removew the slave cylinder from the line and the truck and stick the line into a bottle of brake fluid. I then took out the slave cylinder and submerged the inlet hole into a bowl of brake fluid. I pulled and pushed in the piston and when I would push it out, some bubbles came out. I replaced the whole system making sure no air got in, the slave cylinder being extremely hard to replace since I tried to replace it without the strap that keeps it in place. I got in the truck and had less clutch response and when I started it, I had the clutch in and it was in gear and even with the pedal down all the way it still moved. Maybe I need a new clutch? I have an srod 4 speed, what size clutch should go in it?
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
The size clutch is determined by what flywheel is installed. If the flywheel has been changed previously, the aftermarket flywheels can be drilled for 10 inch and 11 inch clutches. You won't know till you tear it apart.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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Welding up the firewall is a temporary fix. It's just too thin to handle the flex over time. I'd get the repair bracket or fab up your own.
Removing the line from the slave and putting it in a container sounds good in theory but when you pull the line what ever drips out will be replaced by air as you remove and dip. I'd skip that step. Submerging the slave in a bucket of fluid? I'll pass on that suggestion when it's a simple matter to fill the slave in your hand.
Last month I did a roadside slave replacement with a minimal harbor fright tool kit laying on a piece of cardboard. Within 2 hours I filled the slave with fluid, attached the line, installed it, pumped it up, drove it 8 miles and had a working clutch.
Removing the line from the slave and putting it in a container sounds good in theory but when you pull the line what ever drips out will be replaced by air as you remove and dip. I'd skip that step. Submerging the slave in a bucket of fluid? I'll pass on that suggestion when it's a simple matter to fill the slave in your hand.
Last month I did a roadside slave replacement with a minimal harbor fright tool kit laying on a piece of cardboard. Within 2 hours I filled the slave with fluid, attached the line, installed it, pumped it up, drove it 8 miles and had a working clutch.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,667
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From: Tolland, CT
https://www.google.com/search?q=fire...hrome&ie=UTF-8
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 180
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Another thing worth mentioning was when I was reinstalling the slave cylinder on the fork, it was really hard to get it in place since the piston in the slave cylinder kept extending everytime I would push it in, it would extend back out again. Also the fork was not moving one bit. Is there a way I can diagnose the fork? like maybe how much torque it takes to push against it before it moves? Is this a componenet thats supposed to move easily? I have access to a bore scope that could help diagnose inside it if there is a problem internally
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,667
Likes: 1,159
From: Tolland, CT
I recall there is a little play in the fork before it contacts the TOB. The Slave cylinder may take up that play after it's installed. I also recall the TOB should not be spinning all the time, so there should be a little movement in the pedal before the fork touches the throw out bearing. It's been a few years since I've played with a manual tranny.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,316
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Another thing worth mentioning was when I was reinstalling the slave cylinder on the fork, it was really hard to get it in place since the piston in the slave cylinder kept extending everytime I would push it in, it would extend back out again. Also the fork was not moving one bit. Is there a way I can diagnose the fork? like maybe how much torque it takes to push against it before it moves? Is this a componenet thats supposed to move easily? I have access to a bore scope that could help diagnose inside it if there is a problem internally