Just bought a used 2019 Raptor 3.5L HO with 76K miles and took it to dealer due to rattle at start-up. Dealer identified phaser issue and also noted that the heads are scored and need to be replaced. Total cost to repair is 11K. 6K in parts an 4900 in labor. Couple of questions. They said they are going to submit to the customer loyalty program for assistance from ford and are hopeful they will help some since I have a high loyalty score. Question is should I also try to contact ford customer service and see if they can help also. Or are those the same program basically. The phasers are a known issue. Second I am curious if an entire engine replacement would be much more expensive. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

There's someone from Ford corporate on this site - I've seen them post recently to a "problem" thread and asking the poster to contact them for additional help. I'll see if I can find the contact and post it here for you....

Okay, so obvious... Contact member below if they don't see this that I've tagged them...

@Ford Motor Company

 

Hopefully you will get some support from Ford! However, phasers and heads replaced? IMHO, no way.... assuming the dealer is going to also replace the cam followers, oil pump with the Mellings HV unit, etc. that's about $2k in parts. If they pull the heads and send them to a machine shop for a rebuild, that's about $2k (area dependent)..... through in another $3 for the dealer labor..... you are nowhere near $11k!

 

I'm sure the 4900 in labor includes a cab removal. I'm not understanding why the heads can't be machined. The phasers are common enough of an issue. But I have to agree, isn't 11K in the ballpark of a replacement engine? Is the 3.5L HO that much more expensive? I know, silly question.

 

If you just hear the phasers at start up but the truck runs fine otherwise, then chances are that your heads are fine.

 

Yup, there is no reason not to machine the heads- the typical reason from a dealer is it's faster to to swap parts than to do work! Even the cab removal....it's only a lift operation not a removal and that's to make the mechanics life easier and even then its about 3 hours...... so that's about $500. and you're right, $11k that's a new engine plus turbos.

 

Thanks guys so far for you insight on this.

So I do want to clarify a couple things. The 11k repair does include new timing chains, guides, tensioners, water pump, and CVT solenoids. I figured this was cheap insurance while they are in there but I am sure its driving up cost some. I don't know for sure if they are doing cab removal but from what I read phasers can be done with out it but heads require cab removal so I am assuming its being done.

Based on you responses I called the dealer this morning and asked a few more questions.
1.). How much more would a new engine cost. The rep said he was not sure but off the top of his head he thinks and engine swap would cost around 18k. But he said he would put a real estimate together and get back to me shortly with a real number. I'll let ya'll know what he says. I did check on ford parts.com and a new long block only shows a cost of $6,900.00. I also checked the cost of the other parts they would be replacing, heads no cams are $1000 each, phasers plus the replacement kit are around a $1000, Timing kit, plus water pump, plus the cost of new cams and valve train parts. 6k in parts is not impossible but new engine sounds not that far off.

2.). I asked if there was an updated parts for the heads like there is for the phasers and he said he did not think so. I mentioned that I thought ford updated the heads at one point from a 3 bolt mega cap to a 4 bolt mega cap but I was not sure when they did that or even if would fit our truck he said he would happily research and get back to me.

3.). I asked about contacting ford customer service and if that would help and he said I was more then happy to but in his experience whether they submitted it or I submitted it ultimately ends ups in the same place with same people making the decision.

Lastly, I do trust the dealership so far. They have been nothing but supportive throughout this debacle. They offered to submit the claim to ford and do as mush as they can to get assistance from ford. They pulled my ford loyalty score for me while I was standing there. I have also already had one positive experience with this dealer in the past. A few years ago my dads 2012 diesel F-250 fuel pump grenanded at like 80k miles with no warranty and they fought to get the the entire 12k fuel system replacement covered 100% by ford.

They also said that if ford offers assistance I should be getting 2 discounts. First if ford helps then the labor hours drop from standard shop rates of 189 down to warranty rates of 159.00 so then they second discount would be whatever ford covers. I am just hopeful I can get some assistance, they where confident that ford would offer some assistance. I did tell them to proceed with the repairs no matter what, I don't really have another choice. I just bought the truck and have not even made my first payment on the loan so no matter what the truck has to get back on the road.

 

Another update:

Service tech confirmed that they are going back in with an updated head design 4 bolt mega caps instead of 3 in addition to the new updated phasers. He did price an engine swap and said it would be an additional 7k for a total of about 18k parts and labor but also said they could do an engine but it is currently on back order with no telling how long it could take to get. All the other parts in stock. He said his tech is confident that with the new heads and phasers plus all the other new timing parts they are putting in we should never have another problem and the truck should last a very long time. No word yet on assistance from ford.

 

How long will they warranty their parts and labor?

 

That is a great question I will ask.

 

I thought Ford had a 24 month warranty? On parts, for sure, but shouldn't Labor be the same?

 

I don't know anymore. That's why the question has to be asked and the answer should be put in writing on the invoice receipt. If they acknowledge in writing that it has to be warranted for 24 months, there is more incentive for them to do it right the first time.

 

Last I knew, Ford's warranty is 24 months, unlimited miles.

Apparently the parts list on the HO is very pricey and not as common as the regular 3.5L thus driving the price way up.

You mentioned you just bought this truck, how along ago exactly? If you traded it back in, would you take an 11K hit? If the truck is worth it to you then fix it and be happy.

My very next move would be to find a highly reputable independent shop and ask all the questions.

 

Man I hate this I just wish ford and other companies would stand behind there products its just a shame you can't get 75k out of a 18 thousand dollar engine I don't care how old it is makes me think give me a 79 f150 351 c6

 

I bought the truck used less then a month ago. My first payment on it is due in a couple of weeks. I would get what I paid for it at least if I traded. I got a good deal on the truck basically paid trade in value. The truck is immaculate otherwise. It's actually for my wife, its been her dream vehicle for a while. I bought it for her and surprised her with it on our anniversary.

A little history on us, for many years I drove a 2017 F-250 King Ranch Diesel that I bought new and loved and she drove a Subaru outback. Before that she drove a jeep wrangler she loved but it got totaled when she T-Boned someone that ran a red light while she was doing 65mph. We were good for a while on cars until in November 2022 when my truck was stolen while I was working at a job site on a college campus. Lost the truck and over 35k in tools that where locked in the bed (never recovered). I tried to buy another Super Duty but it was right in the middle of the chip shortage and I would have had to wait months and pay way over sticker. We have three small kids all in carseats so at the time we where going to upgrade her outback to kia mini van that we had on order for 6 months. When my truck was stolen the mini van was no near ready and I needed to buy some kind of vehicle so I bought a used Chrysler Pacifica for now with the intention of buying a new super duty when the market normalized. Unfortunately our kids grew into bigger car seats and they just would no longer fit in her outback. So I told her I would look for a new used truck for myself and pass her my minivan. But, I knew she hated the minivan and always wanted a Raptor. Ever since she totaled her wrangler she always wanted to get back into a brawny off-road vehicle but Wranglers or Broncos would not fit 3 car seats. In fact a couple of years ago I took her to test drive Raptors and she loved it, it checked all the boxes. So fast forward to today, I told her I was looking for another truck for myself, but secretly searching for a Raptor and found a perfect one. Bought it and surprised her with a key in a box for our wedding anniversary, she freaked out, it was epic, worth every penny. She drove it for a couple of weeks with a smile ear to ear, until this debacle. Sorry to give you guys our car life story but the point of all that is to say I absolutely want the truck back, this is gonna be the wife's dream truck for the next 10 years. I rolled the dice on a used truck and unfortunately drew a bad hand. 11k is going to suck to get it fixed, but the smile on her face it brings is priceless. I am at least finding some comfort in the fact that its going back together with all the new updated parts so it should never be a problem again, and should last her a long time, hopefully.