Hello, been awhile since I had any issues with my Bronco but in the last year it has started dying on me randomly from time. I drive a 1994, EB Bronco with a Jasper rebuilt 351W that was put in back in 2021, the shop did a very good job and only replaced what was necessary, my Bronco was actually a favorite project of theirs, but among the things that were carried over to the new engine is the distributor, but they did replace the wires, cap, coil ect...

So some backstory, last May or June, the issue first occurred when I just parked after running normally and when I came back, it woukd not start. After about an hour of fiddling I found that wiggling the ignition module (gray, no numbers) would let it crank. Long story short, I figured out keeping the screws tight fixed the issue....temporarily it turned out. This happened a few times until it finally went totally kaputz, so it seemed. Got a new ICM (black after seeing an article here about them), made sure it was tight as it too would not start unless it was very secure to the heat sink(fender mount) but after that and some loctite, truck ran without issue from June to this past February, Feb 14th to be exact...go figure, when the engine just stopped as I was pulling into a parking lot. Luckily it was downhill and I could park, but nothing woukd get it to start again.

So I get home, and out of curiosity, I dig up the original ignition module (the "dead" gray one) and plug it in, truck starts right up on what I thought was a dead module, and while not mounted to the heat sink no less. I shut it right back off and bolted it back to the heat sink and the truck has run daily another 2 months no issues until it crapped out doing about 70ish on the interstate about 10 minutes of driving on Thursday. Luckily I could coast off between orange barrels i to a lane under construction.

Thinking the original module really died this time I got another (black, but different numbers), but this time no dice, won't start. I got my Bosch code reader and it pulls a few code but the 2 relevant ones are 211 and 212 which I have already researched are pip and spout issues it seems.

So, I want to know what the odds are I just need a new distributor or I shoukd start tracing a few other possible causes?

 

Aftermarket ICMs tend to be short fuses these days. The Motorcraft black CCD remote mount ICMs are not known to go bad very often in my experience. Given the PIP code I would replace that first. The challenge is getting a Ford version PIP sensor if you want to only replace that. The next hurdle is getting a good NEW name brand distributor. Plenty of tales from folks trying to use rebuilt or chinese new distributors.

 

I can find an indentical looking pip sensor at the parts store for $50 and amazon for $16, I would also need to get tools to pulls the gear off, so I may rebuild the distributor, but cost wise I can also get a new one to drop in for $100ish, but like you say, hard to say which are good. I am deciding because I would like to get right on it when I am free this week and I would hate to wait on parts to get here just in time for me to go back to work.

Are there other reliable brands I van look for or is Motorcraft really the only trustworthy option?

 

FWIW, the PIP sensor in my '96 Bronco, 5.0l, went out last year (with similar intermittent symptoms) and I replaced it with a Motorcraft DU-50; the distributor's shaft seal is a SKF 5321. I suspect a '94 351 will use the same one.
While the original lasted about 180k miles, the new one didn't last 100.

I didn't have the time right then to drag it back to the garage and press it apart/together-again, so put in a new Cardone 84-2890 distributor ordered from Walmart - none of the local auto parts stores stocked anything that would fit, and they were cheap and fast. It's worked fine for the last three or four thousand miles.

Since it's impossible to replace the just the PIP pickup on the side of the road, parts stores can't be counted on to carry a matching distributor, and I won't use another Motorcraft DU-50, the original distributor now has a Wells PIP pickup and rides along in the parts/tool crate. I should probably swap it back in and let the now know-good Cardone distributor act as the backup.

 

Yeah, the same Cardone distributor is the only distributor in stock at any one my nearby stores and I can't even find a Motorcraft distributor on amazon or ebay. I think Ill get the Cardone from my Advanced Auto store on Monday and get my truck back on the road then maybe get a good pip sensor rebuild current one sometime when I can buy the tools to do it myself. I just hope this is all that is wrong with, I love driving my Bronco everywhere.

 

Update:

So, I went ahead and got a new distributor, coil and put the new ignition module in my Bronco tonight but it still won't start. It turns over good, it is definitely getting a spark from the coil and I smell gas when I try to start.

I definitely needed a new distributor because when I pulled the old one the teeth were extremely worn, bordering on non existant so I'm not totally sure how it was running at all much less as good as it was. I took a flood light and looked down into the distributor hole and the gear inside looks really good, so I assume it was chewing up the distributor gear and I will change the oil asap and look for metal bits.

Now I marked the position of everything and installed the new distributor as close to identically as I can, but I wonder if it finally skipped teeth and got out of sequence. Now from previous experience, an engine should ignite some cylinders, even if it's in the wrong order, but I am getting no ignition even though I apparently have spark from the coil. I got a new coil just to be thorough and I have tried both the old ICM and the new one but they both act the same, so I left the new one in. I even cleaned up the threads on the heat sink and put new screws in it the be sure it is getting good contact with the module.

Based on some advice from another thread on this site, I checked the spout to make sure it isn't grounded by cutting the tape around it and looking at the foil and wires, everything seems good. While crawling around it, I discovered my whole system woukd click on and off when I touched the battery cables and it seemed to be my aftermarket battery connectors set screws coming loose, but even after tightening them all down, it didn't seem to change anything. I traced my main ground wires to the engine block and the fender. They are solid and I get full voltage when I check it with a meter.

To add a cherry on top, one of the wires to my EEC connector broke off and the duckbill fell out somewhere so I can't hook my code reader to it until I steal a duckbill out of my ABS test connector or find a pigtail to replace my whole connector.

At this point I am thinking of taking it to my mechanic and paying for more expert eyes to check it out but I am afraid it may cost through the nose on troubleshooting labor time.

 

I would remove the SPOUT then check the base timing using a timing light. You can do that while cranking the engine over. If that checks out, leave the SPOUT out then see if the engine will fire with a little starting fluid.

The old distributor gear looks really bad. I wonder if someone installed a distributor with the wrong gear on it.

 

Maybe, my thinking is the gear was so bad and finally skipped so it was out of position. I'm thinking that the old one was actually the original distributor and it has just used too long, but I find it hard to believe that my shop would reinstall a distributor that any wear on it when I got my new engine 3 years ago. So idk if all this wear is from 3 years of use or longer. And I have never seen any signs of metal in my oil changes and it has had 3 since the new engine was put in.

 

The wear on that gear is not remotely normal - there is something fundamentally wrong there. I strongly recommend definitively getting to the bottom of that before putting another mile on that engine. Maybe the steel vs cast gear issue? Worse, something about the oil pump putting a lot of strain on that cam/dist-gear interface?

 

Update:

So I had my Bronco taken to a shop I trust, the people who put my engine in. In the end I replaced all the right parts but the timing on the distributor had jumped way off but the engine itself was fine. They zeroed the timing to 10° off tdc and got it running and during the process found the Purge valve was split at the hose fitting, so they replaced that too.

Now when I got it back it ran ok but weird, you could just tell, and all the mechanic had to say was "uhh.....I mean, it runs like a 90s Ford" but I could tell something was off. It shifted completely differently, late, and the more I drove it developed a bad stumble and choking at RPMs of 2000 and above which made it hard to accelerate when needed and I had to stay below 40mph. But, I had seen this before when I had the wrong ICM in it last year. So I put the original ICM (gray, no markings) back in and bam, my engine is back to normal.

So, I have been studying the forums here and ran across a lot of useful information about black vs gray ICM and what year models they go to, but none of the rules seem to apply to my Bronco because I now own a new gray ICM (carquest) and new black ICM(also carquest) that both cause severe stumble at rpms above 2k. But I also have another black ICM(Motorcraft DY1077) that worked correctly but burned out in February and finally my original gray unmarked ICM that has been on it since we got it in 2006, which seems to be the only reliable ICM on the planet atm. I would like to identify what ICM I have so I can keep a spare around but I can't trust the black vs gray rules for 90s 5.8l. Is anyone familiar with this issue in aftermarket ICMs?

 

Yes, aftermarket ICMs tend to have very short lives and cause the symptoms you are stating. Best advice is source a real Motorcraft DY1077 Black remote mount CCD Ignition Control Module (ICM). Even a used one is better than most aftermarket versions IMHO.

Good article related to the Gray Push-Start vs Black CCD Ignition Control Module attached.

 

Thank you. I will probably get another Motorcraft one since it did work but burned out. My current one is an unmarked gray one which I heard mentioned somewhere that one particular ICM didn't follow the color rule, but I can't find that source again, but it is running right now and I know that at least the DY1077 will work if I need it. I am hoping having an all new distributor (carquest too, fingers crossed) will put my ignition issues to rest for the moment.

 

The only problem you will have running a grey module, is a code 212 for the IDM circuit missing in the ignition control module
That Ignition Diagnostic Monitor is 1994 and up and needs the black module to operate
Check the capacitors in your processor
Mine ran like a Mexican jumping bean before I replaced my processor (it was missing like crazy)

 

If you have a roller cam 351W you need to make sure you have the correct distributor gear. A roller cam needs a steel distributor gear but when you look up parts based on the year of 94 and up they all still try to sell you a cast gear distributor for some reason. In 1994 Ford went roller compatible 351W with the F4 engine code, but still check to verify that the cam is a roller.
Don't just assume that the distributor you buy is correct without checking this first.
Verify that you have a roller cam first, especially since this is a replacement engine.
If you do, you need steel gear. If not, cast would be proper.


Any mechanic that makes a statement about running like a 90s Ford to justify a sub par diagnosis would not be doing any further work on my vehicle.
They ran great when new and will do so again when correct parts are installed.

 

No codes at the moment. That old grey ICM module has worked since the original engine for some reason (This is the 3rd engine, 2nd engine overheated a few times and burned up bearings). I only replaced the ICM last summer because I thought it was the issue but apparently it wasn't. So far, the black Motorcraft DY1077 is the only other one than can run the engine the same but it burned out after 9 months with the old distributor.

As for the cam I don't know what mine is, it was a Jasper rebuilt 351W I had dropped in it in 2021, but I didn't get specs on it at the time, the shop just said they would order the same engine. Apparently the distributor getting eat up didn't hurt anything according to my mechanic. How do I tell if I have a roller cam or not?

My shop has been reliable over the years amd they know me well, but has recently been getting younger mechanics in there so there quality varies depending on who works on it. They put their best people on my engine replacement awhile back and my rear diff replacement, but I have gone in for a few odds and ends in the last year on my '90 F150 and Bronco and I have started getting some less professional feedback from a few of their newer techs. I suppose it happens as the older techs retire and new guys come in.