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Old Apr 6, 2024 | 12:35 PM
  #1  
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Help

I am going to help remove a 95 f800 from a property in the morning that has no keys. I'm pretty sure I can get it to run and move, but is there a steering lock I will have to deal with and if so how do I disable it?
 
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Old Apr 6, 2024 | 01:30 PM
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Retired locksmith here.

Style One (less likely for your truck to have):
On this style, the ign. barrel can be removed from the column in the OFF position, so no key is required.
If it's one of the the typical Saginaw steering columns (also used on GM and International products for many years), and you want to continue to use it, remove the steering wheel, use a specialized compression tool to hold down the toothed lock plate against strong spring pressure, dig out the retaining circlip from its groove (o-ring pick works well here; the circlip has no ears so you can't use a typical retaining ring pliers-type tool), remove the toothed plate.

Unscrew the turn signal lever and remove it. Unscrew the turn signal switch retaining screws, unscrews the Hazard button (single Philips screw) and pull the switch up far enough to access the single ignition cylinder screw that acts as a side-pin to retain the ign. barrel, to hold the ign. barrel in place

Pull the Ign. barrel out. Use #2 flat screwdriver to turn the pinion gear to move the ign. switch rack, which moves the actuator rod down the column to the actual ign. switch.

You'll need some tools that you may not have (hub puller and G5/G8 bolts to engage the steering wheel; o-ring pick or sturdy #0 flat screwdriver (you can and will stab yourself removing that circlip the first time, bring Band-Aids); Torx bit for the barrel retaining screw on later years; and the toothed plate compressor, which you can jerry-rig with things on hand but is best jerry-rigged by using a second person to grunt and hold the toothed plate down against the strong spring whilst you stab yourself taking out the circlip).

[very, very early Saginaw locking columns, like Cadillac/Corvette in '68 and for a few more years, used a spring tab in the collar rather than a retaining screw; slide-hammer attacks would bend that tab, so they quickly migrated to the retaining screw, which absolutely cannot be defeated by a slide hammer.]

Style Two (more likely one for your truck to have):
Drill the hell out of CENTER of the ign. cylinder, to get it to turn without a key (also to allow it to be withdrawn and replaced, without a key). This barrel can only be removed in the ON position. Start with a small bit and enlarge the initial drill hole in small increments. Be VERY careful to keep the hole centered as much as possible, or you'll risk ruining the column's collar, which can affect other functions (on smaller trucks: tilt, horn, upper bearing, and column shifter). That collar can be replaced (in primer color only) and used to be widely available (due to people ruining them) but it's not a lot of fun, esp. if it's a tilt column.

Do NOT drill too deep, as there's a rectangular aperture at the bottom through which the end of the ign. barrel reaches (with a T-shaped protrusion) to engage the pinion gear, and on later columns like yours it has a somewhat hardened steel plate overlay to prevent a slide-hammer attack. Don't damage it by over-drilling. If possible, use a shop vac and remove the barrel in small chunks, WATCHING where you drill, and taking out only bits that are part of the barrel and not the collar. In no event drill larger than 1/2", it's not necessary as all the wafers can be removed through a 1/2" hole when you've chewed them into smaller bits with the Dremel/drill.

It's possible to drill the center of the barrel in a steady way to remove all the tumblers (they're technically brass wafers in this lock) and get the barrel to turn via the ears, but just putting pliers etc. on the barrel's ears will just spin the ears off; they are not part of the barrel, they're crimped on, so it's not an attack vector, and never try to turn the barrel via the ears with a tool, only by hand.

I liked to use both a drill and a Dremel with 1/8" carbide burr to remove all the wafers, then turn the barrel to enable pulling it out of the collar.

As a first-time DIYer, tou can easily spend two hours doing this in a way that prevents having to later replace the collar or entire column. But if you ruin that collar, which is also the upper column shaft bearing mounting, you'll spend twice that time repairing that. I made good money replacing those collars after Brutus "had to get home" and broke hell out of theirs. $500 repairs were not uncommon (tilt column, plus painting to match).

It's not supposed to be easy to defeat, by design, and they had a lot of years to improve it by 1995. I'm certain there's a dozen vids on YT on R&R ign. cylinder on these columns, if you want to prepare, but the above is my professional overview, having done dozens before I went Institutional (hospital) and left automotive locksmithing behind a couple of decades ago.

HTH
 
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Old Apr 6, 2024 | 06:28 PM
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Flatbed or lowboy and winch.....
 
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Old Apr 6, 2024 | 09:06 PM
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Or you could, like, pay a locksmith to come make a key for it.

No, you probably can't pull out a door lock and take it to them, have a key fitted to that lock, and have it also work in the ignition. The later 10-cut Ford key system have door locks that contain only (6?) a fraction of the tumblers needed to operate the ign. We used to get a lot of people bringing us door locks for Fords, thinking that if they paid us to make a door key, they could avoid a service call to the vehicle, but it doesn't work that way.

We also had a bunch of steering columns brought to us to fit keys to the lock, go figure. A lot of work to avoid a service call fee, IMO.

Also, there are a LOT of underqualified "automotive" or "mobile" locksmiths running around, so use a business that either has a physical storefront (check Google Street View to make sure their listed address really has their business!) or has a verifiable reputation if they're mobile only. So many locksmith scammers . . .
 
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Old Apr 7, 2024 | 07:12 AM
  #5  
Usernamessuck's Avatar
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Originally Posted by asavage
Retired locksmith here.

Style One (less likely for your truck to have):
On this style, the ign. barrel can be removed from the column in the OFF position, so no key is required.
If it's one of the the typical Saginaw steering columns (also used on GM and International products for many years), and you want to continue to use it, remove the steering wheel, use a specialized compression tool to hold down the toothed lock plate against strong spring pressure, dig out the retaining circlip from its groove (o-ring pick works well here; the circlip has no ears so you can't use a typical retaining ring pliers-type tool), remove the toothed plate.

Unscrew the turn signal lever and remove it. Unscrew the turn signal switch retaining screws, unscrews the Hazard button (single Philips screw) and pull the switch up far enough to access the single ignition cylinder screw that acts as a side-pin to retain the ign. barrel, to hold the ign. barrel in place

Pull the Ign. barrel out. Use #2 flat screwdriver to turn the pinion gear to move the ign. switch rack, which moves the actuator rod down the column to the actual ign. switch.

You'll need some tools that you may not have (hub puller and G5/G8 bolts to engage the steering wheel; o-ring pick or sturdy #0 flat screwdriver (you can and will stab yourself removing that circlip the first time, bring Band-Aids); Torx bit for the barrel retaining screw on later years; and the toothed plate compressor, which you can jerry-rig with things on hand but is best jerry-rigged by using a second person to grunt and hold the toothed plate down against the strong spring whilst you stab yourself taking out the circlip).

[very, very early Saginaw locking columns, like Cadillac/Corvette in '68 and for a few more years, used a spring tab in the collar rather than a retaining screw; slide-hammer attacks would bend that tab, so they quickly migrated to the retaining screw, which absolutely cannot be defeated by a slide hammer.]

Style Two (more likely one for your truck to have):
Drill the hell out of CENTER of the ign. cylinder, to get it to turn without a key (also to allow it to be withdrawn and replaced, without a key). This barrel can only be removed in the ON position. Start with a small bit and enlarge the initial drill hole in small increments. Be VERY careful to keep the hole centered as much as possible, or you'll risk ruining the column's collar, which can affect other functions (on smaller trucks: tilt, horn, upper bearing, and column shifter). That collar can be replaced (in primer color only) and used to be widely available (due to people ruining them) but it's not a lot of fun, esp. if it's a tilt column.

Do NOT drill too deep, as there's a rectangular aperture at the bottom through which the end of the ign. barrel reaches (with a T-shaped protrusion) to engage the pinion gear, and on later columns like yours it has a somewhat hardened steel plate overlay to prevent a slide-hammer attack. Don't damage it by over-drilling. If possible, use a shop vac and remove the barrel in small chunks, WATCHING where you drill, and taking out only bits that are part of the barrel and not the collar. In no event drill larger than 1/2", it's not necessary as all the wafers can be removed through a 1/2" hole when you've chewed them into smaller bits with the Dremel/drill.

It's possible to drill the center of the barrel in a steady way to remove all the tumblers (they're technically brass wafers in this lock) and get the barrel to turn via the ears, but just putting pliers etc. on the barrel's ears will just spin the ears off; they are not part of the barrel, they're crimped on, so it's not an attack vector, and never try to turn the barrel via the ears with a tool, only by hand.

I liked to use both a drill and a Dremel with 1/8" carbide burr to remove all the wafers, then turn the barrel to enable pulling it out of the collar.

As a first-time DIYer, tou can easily spend two hours doing this in a way that prevents having to later replace the collar or entire column. But if you ruin that collar, which is also the upper column shaft bearing mounting, you'll spend twice that time repairing that. I made good money replacing those collars after Brutus "had to get home" and broke hell out of theirs. $500 repairs were not uncommon (tilt column, plus painting to match).

It's not supposed to be easy to defeat, by design, and they had a lot of years to improve it by 1995. I'm certain there's a dozen vids on YT on R&R ign. cylinder on these columns, if you want to prepare, but the above is my professional overview, having done dozens before I went Institutional (hospital) and left automotive locksmithing behind a couple of decades ago.

HTH
So, would it be the same ignition as an f150/250? I have access to another switch with a key I can replace this one with if so.
 
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