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OK, I have an 85 F150 with the 300 six in it, 3spd/OD on the floor, 405,000 miles on it now, that I bought new, and I learned something on this site I did not know, that there was a limp mode in the ignition. I just pulled a compression test and found all 6 cylinders to hit 150 lbs on the third pump, so going ahead to solve the problem. I am interested in changing to the regular carburetor and either points distributor or one of the all in one HEI distributors and getting away from the Ford system. I read that doing this basically makes the Ford ECI useless and un-needed. So, are the steps, acquire the carb, acquire the distributor, install, check timing, set idle and off we go? Is there any worthwhile reason to keep the original Ford setup, or does anyone have a more bullet proof plan? I have no idea about the condition of electrical things attached to the carb, such as the feedback solenoid or whether anything in the ECI system is working correctly. The truck seems to be running rich, and just recently it occasionally quits while at idle and needs a restart. It runs smooth at speed, but rough at idle. A friend told me about the guide pin hole in the intake manifold and he said he found the original plastic pin had rotted out and was sucking air through the hole. I did what he did, tapped the hole and put in a bolt, as it seemed like mine was leaking too. There is another one by cyl 6, but on mine, I could see the gasket material in it so it was not leaking, maybe that pin was never there. If the ignition module on the distributor is malfunctioning, will it make it rough at idle or keep it in limp mode which I understand makes the engine run rich? Every failure of that module in the past 38 years, and there have been 5, have all been indicated by the engine turning over and trying to catch, but it doesn't start. I have kept a spare module with a homemade cut down nut driver to remove the screws in it, every since the first one quite when the truck was a year old. A couple of post had links to an HEI distributor sold on Amazon, and a regular Carter single barrel knock off carb, for this truck, but not sure if those are the places to get them.
You're asking some questions I want to monitor the discussion on different ignition systems. You mentioned going to a points distributor, I'd really like to hear from tuners why not? My 73 Chevy 350 1/2 ton had the famous GM distributor with points and the patented peek a boo slider so you could dial in the dwell and check timing in situ. I was able to change oil, complete tuneup in about an hour. Reliable ignition system.
Most of the problem posts here are regarding smog equipment problems, electronic ignition, feedback systems, computers and EFI. With a carb and a points distributor on a basic internal combustion engine I don't see how you could go wrong. But I'm old school.
So, are the steps, acquire the carb, acquire the distributor, install, check timing, set idle and off we go?
Yes.
Is there any worthwhile reason to keep the original Ford setup, or does anyone have a more bullet proof plan?
No. The original Ford computer control system worked well when it was new. But when it has problems it can be difficult to diagnose, and some parts of the system are hard to find and purchase now. I suggest putting the distributor in first and get it running on that. Then put the new carb in and get it running on that, doing it in steps. Once you get it running nice, you can start at the computer and unplug it, fish the wiring plug through the firewall, and slowly unplug and get rid of all that wiring and those extra sensors. You will be left with a ignition hot to the distributor, a wire for the oil pressure sensor and a wire for the temp sensor for the gauges. And of course some wires for the alternator and the lights, etc.
As easy as it is to trouble shoot points it is really old school and why in it not wise to go back to it.
You said dwell, if that is not set right and first the timing will be off and on something that dose not have the peak a boo window it is work to get it right.
The points use a plastic block that rubs on a cam to open & close them. even with a little grease that block wears down and as it dose the dwell changes as dose the timing. How can you have a top running motor when the timing keeps changing?
Also todays points & condenser are junk so how long till they give out who knows.
Points cant have a full 12 volts to them other than when starting or they burn out faster so you have a weaker spark.
Weaker spark makes it harder to light off the air / fuel mix even more so when it is lean to pass smog.
Yea points are not the way to go unless you really really need to get it running to move.
You could put a points conversion kit in it but why when you can just buy a dist.?
I would like to know what this plastic pin was that leaked?
I have had my manifolds off and never seen anything like that.
Manifolds to head bolts come lose and the gasket goes bad and the same for the carb to intake manifold or the 2 half of the carb that cause vacuum leaks.
If you can find an older car or truck, 75 to 84 non-feed back in the junk yard you can get all the parts & wiring to swap yours to non-feed back.
There is nothing wrong with the Ford DSII system and it puts out just as hot a spark as the HEI dose.
Being the DSII is getting harder to come by the HEI off Ebay is the best way to go in my book.
Run full 12 volts to it and new plug wire and you are running.
I would do the dist first because if anything with the feed back system is not 100% right it go into limp and locks the timing, this is not good for power or MPG.
Once you have the dist. installed and dialed in then do the carb.
I just installed a Ebay carb on my truck I bought a while back. I will see if I can find info on the box for it.
I can tell you it was way too lean when I installed it running in the 16 to 17 range on my AFR gauge.
I swapped it out as I was having a vary bad bucking issue that so far is not because of fuel.
Dave ----
Dave, I never experienced cam follower wear changing the dwell angle. But the points do get "burned" bit after 10,000 miles. I always changed out the points with the plugs every 10,000 miles. The cost of plugs, points and condenser was less than 10 bucks. I always used AC Delco, made in USA. When you install the points you set the point gap, and that setting was close enough to the final dwell angle that only a minor adjustment was needed. If you had a non GM distributor you had to shut off the engine, remove the cap, adjust the points, replace the cap and check the dwell. Doable but more time and energy getting it right.
All I can say is 350,000 trouble free miles making 18 to 20 mpg. Always started right up with a quick bump of the key. Even when cold thanks to a properly working automatic choke.
I wish I hadn't sold it after I bought my 86 Ford. But having two trucks, more insurance and registration costs were not in my budget back then, especially with a new truck payment to boot.
I have no regrets on buying my Ford pickup with the 6.9 IDI, very dependable and economical to operate.
"I would like to know what this plastic pin was that leaked?
I have had my manifolds off and never seen anything like that."
Well, if you look at the #1 cylinder end, you see the stud clamping the exhaust and intake manifold to the head, and to the right of that in the intake manifold casting is a hole, or maybe in yours the guide pin is still there. But where the hole is, the casting actually has a hump in it to accommodate it and maintain casting strength. At cylinder 6, there is an identical hole, in the casting. I have one of those Harbor Freight inspection cameras and when I looked in there, I could pass a scribe all the way into the head casting. at #1, but at #6, I saw gasket.
Lost my reply question, trying again...From Dave F. "The original Ford computer control system worked well when it was new. But when it has problems it can be difficult to diagnose, and some parts of the system are hard to find and purchase now. I suggest putting the distributor in first and get it running on that. Then put the new carb in and get it running on that, doing it in steps."
Should I go old school points/condenser distributor or a modern all in one HEI stye? Should I take the hit on a $300 one from one of the custom parts sites, or the 90 buck one from Amazon that looks just like it? Is the basic non-feedback Carter or aftermarket Carter 1bbl carb the one I need if all I want is just around town type driving? About the farthest I go is 100 miles from home with the truck, I do live in the mountains so lots of up and down. The one concern is failure of the HEI distributor while I am on the road. The Ford stock ignition, I keep a spare control module for the distributor, but those HEI units look like if they fail you replace the whole thing, not just a module within them. Need more info on how those are constructed.
Are you talking about the hole above the intake port of #1 & #6?
On my head there is nothing there IIRC but the gaskets also fit the EFI heads and manifolds and they use 2 more clamping bolts at that locations.
Wonder if your head or motor is of the EFI years?
On the HEI dist. I would not go for the cheapest one or the most dollar one.
Also check the feed back on the seller.
If something goes bad or wears out down the road like cap, rotor or module they are just your normal GM part for say a 80 motor - GM 250 six for the 300 and GM 350 for a v8 Ford.
The body of the HEI is the only thing different between all HEI dist. and what they fit even for the GM motors (B.O.P. Chevy)
Should not be any issues getting parts for the HEI dist.
Dave ----
OReilly's wants $20.99 for the points and $11.99 for the condenser. Believe it or not, they keep these in stock at my local store.
Times are changing.
You can file the points a couple times and extend their life. A lot of guys did that using a points file. Then save your old condensers so you have a box of them under the seat. Then carry an extra point set in case of failure. They were so cheap to me that I tossed em.
Discovering some Youtube videos on this change out, but most are not very good. The mechanics of swapping distributor and carb, which they go into great detail about on youtube, are not what I need, but all the hookup afterward. One fellow on this site said the blue and white wire to the Ford ignition module is the 12 volt hot lead during start and run, and to power the new HEI off of that. One bit of info was the possibility of having to shorten the oil pump drive rod, maybe 1/8 inch to get the new dist. to seat properly, plus the fact that there is a replacement module that goes in the top of some of those HEI dist. that you can carry as a spare, just in case.
I feel like I’m missing something. The system is 38 years old with 405K miles but is somehow not good? When was the last time the carburetor was rebuilt? It sounds like you have a distributor mounted TFI module so have you been using a Motorcraft part and the correct thermal paste or aftermarket modules? Why wouldn’t you use an electronic ignition like something from Pertronix instead of running points? It isn’t the 60’s anymore. If you are set on getting rid of the feedback carb then why not use a Duraspark II ignition system? I have carbureted trucks with points ignition systems but they are not my daily drivers. I have EFI vehicles for that.
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