I don't understand the difference between this and just taking the truck in?

 

If they balance your tires with flat spots from sitting, then they will "unbalance" themselves, once the flat spots go away, from driving on the tires.
Typically much more of an issue with high perf, and/or low profile tires, but truck tires are not completely immune.

Does not affect new tires usually, unless they were sitting on a rack for a long time, with a tube from the rack pushing against a single spot on the tire.
Anyway, if I didn't remove tires/wheels, I would make darn sure the shop drove my vehicle a bit, before they removed tires for balancing.

 

I don't think it's an issue; it is a 20 mile drive at 65 for me to get to town.

 

Are these oversized tires?

If the tires are anything other than 225 (or 8R), then the tires chosen and shown are not designed for the rim width of what appears to be stock aluminum wheels as shown.

For example, if the tires shown in the photo are 245, then they do not appear to be mounted on a rim designed to carry that tire. Such a mismatch might challenge any balancing method... whether it be weights, discs, or beads.

I've run Centramatic balancers for the last 12 years on an F-550 which STILL has the same set of (aged out) tires that I mounted in 2011, with the Centramatics. There is no uneven wear, with more than a 1/2 inch of tread remaining after 40,000 miles.

But I'm running the stock size tire on the stock size rim.

 

Yes. Went from 225 to 245 on stock wheels. My fault, but I didn't realize that an extra 1.1" in diameter and .7" in width would be an issue. I went to the 245 because they are 16ply vs 14ply and have almost 1000# more capacity. I can definitely feel that on expansion joints, but knew that was coming. In any case, I now own $3800 worth of tires and have to make them work. I appreciate all the suggestions.

Perhaps I overstated the problem. I feel a slight out-of-balance above 45mph. At 65mph my fingertips on the steering wheel can feel it; I prefer a smooth ride. I feel confident (hope) that putting them on the balance machine will take care of the problem.

 

If they balanced your tires as soon as you show up (less than a day, anyway), then you are probably good on a typical SD tire.
But when I went to the dealer initally on my vibration issue, it was almost 2 weeks until they finally road forced my tires. Did they
drive it on the highway like they are supposed to before hand?, maybe?

Audi specifically calls out 12 miles and then get tires off the ground. Again, most tires on Audi vehicles are more
flat spot prone than typical SD tires. I'm just pointing out for those having a seemingly incurable balancing issue,
this is something else to try.

"Eliminate flat spots
Flat spots are created after the warm tire has cooled down after a stationary period of only a few hours. Flat spots will vary based on the type, size, and make of the tire. Flat spots falsify the radial force fluctuation and must be driven out before checking balance or road force. A test drive of at least 12 miles (20 km) at various speed ranges (up to 62 mph / 100 km/h) is necessary. Raise the vehicle on a lift/hoist immediately after the test drive then check balance and road force immediately since flat spots may reappear as the tires cool down."

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...23987-9999.pdf

 

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense and something I never considered. It's probably not an issue for me, I'll drive to the shop and, if I'm first in line, they will be working on the truck within less than an hour.

 

Put some balancing beads in the tires, should smooth them out.

 

You can not run balancing beads/media with centramatics. I learned the hard way, but centramatics website also has this information.

 

Can you please share the link to the specific page on Centramatic's website where you found that Centramatics explained not to use balance beads with their balancing rings?

Thanks!

 

I'm currently running them on my truck, but truthfully, I'm not impressed. I can tell no difference before/after, other than the sound of the balancers. I plan to see how they do with my smaller winter tires, wondering if 37s are just too much. But as of right now... I wish I hadn't bothered.

 

I could not find it either.

 

Your truck is a 2022. Did the OEM production tires wear out that quickly, forcing your hand in buying new tires?

Or did you change your OEM tires prior to them wearing out, only because they were "terrible in the winter", and otherwise still had plenty of tread left?

Were you able to sell your OEM tires, at only a year old, with plenty of tread left, to recoup some of the cost to fund your switch to larger tires?

There are several reasons for asking all of this, and one of the reasons is to get an idea of how much driving experience/miles did you have on the original production tires, in order to compare what you are now experiencing with the newer tires. Did you have a slightly out of balance problem at 45 mph with your original tires? Did you have the same feel in your fingertips at 65 mph with the OEM tires?

245 tires, especially 16 ply rated LRH tires, tack on a lot more steel material and unsprung weight to the mix. When Ford had balance problems with Continental / General 19.5" tires 25 years ago, the F-53 owners with 245s were first to report the issues.

The measuring rim width on many 19.5" 245 LRH 16 ply tires is actually 7.5", but the minimum rid width to support the sidewall and outer tread shoulders of any ply rating of 245 tire in the 19.5" rim diameter is 6.75." Unfortunately, the stock F-450 wheels are only 6" wide. When Ford fitted 245 tires to the F-600, Ford changed the wheels on that truck to 6.75" rim width. Likewise, on the F-53 and F-59 stripped chassis with 19.5" wheels and 245 tires, the rim widths are also 6.75". On the F-650 Pro Loader (kickup frame), the rim width is 7.5."

The speed rating on a typical 16 ply rated 245 maxes out at 75 mph... another factor that you most likely already considered and are willing to live with. I've experienced 3 blow outs on 19.5 tires, all on the steering axle, all at a cost infinitely higher than the cost of the tire, and all at highway speeds less than 70 mph, but greater than 55 mph, so I tend to take all manufacturer specifications and limitations relating to 19.5" tires rather seriously, based on bitter experience.

The dually spacing is another factor that cannot be evaluated statically. The specifications for dually spacing take into account the dynamics of being at maximum load, at minimum inflation for that load, while turning a corner or hitting a pot hole at speed.

If you prefer a smooth ride, then one option (regrettably at some loss) is to immediately sell your 245 tires before you put too many miles on them, and revert back to 225. If you do that, consider a steer tire that has a different tread pattern than what you currently have at present. Those two changes will likely make a more noticeable difference than any type of balancing on a tire machine, Road Force or otherwise.

Unless the tire machine has the exact type of wheel centering adapter designed for the OEM wheels, what ends up being perfectly balanced is the idiosyncratic and non repeatable way that the tire and wheel assembly was chucked up to the machine. This is especially true of cone adapters. I've proven this in the field where I have paid tire jockeys to balance Ford light truck tire and wheel assemblies from chassis cabs, for as long as it took to achieve a perfect RoadForce balance (machine level 7 at the time). Then after they removed the tire and wheel assembly from the machine, I made a bet with them that if they remounted the tire and wheel that they just balanced perfectly back onto the same machine, by the same tire tech, the tire and wheel will read out of balance. And of course, the tire techs were shocked that the tire and wheel they had just balanced was indeed out of balance when they remounted it back on to the machine.

So how "perfect" will the balance be when it is remounted back on to the hub of the truck?

What the tire techs were balancing on the machine included the happenstance of how the wheel was chucked up to the machine. Unless the tire shop has the correct vehicle specific adapters for their balance machine (most do not, and prefer a general type of adapter, with a few general type of adaptation fittings, since having the specific adapters optimized for every OEM manufacturer is unreasonably costly in both the tooling and the time to change the tooling), the best we can hope for is to get close, especially where larger, heavier mass tires with more steel inside present a bigger challenge to balance.

What on vehicle dynamic balancing aides do well is to make up for the idiosyncratic difference. I use Centramatics because I don't want stuff inside of my tires and wheels, for reasons beyond the scope of your concern.

Even though you already made a considerable investment in new tires, the tires you selected stacked the deck against a smooth ride at highway speeds. The extra weight carrying capacity of the new tires, which far exceeds the carrying capacity of the truck, may not be in "balance" with other priorities, which only you can "weigh."

The OEM tires that Ford puts on the F-450 pickups, especially on the steer axle, are indeed terrible in that application. Can't blame you a bit for changing your OEM steer tires. Ford puts better tires (also Continentals) on the F-450 chassis cab.

 

I just ordered one of these, as getting a consistent centering check with my RF on the 23 SD wheels, has been tough with inner machined hub centric setup, and just shy of a 5 inch centering hole (which means you can't do an inside cone, without several other adapters, which seems to tolerance stack, at best). Company claims 0 to .003 runout on a new unit, we shall see I guess.

https://store.repquip.com/products/q...kit-40mm-shaft

 

The Continentals are not worn out, they have plenty of tread and I will try to sell them once I am satisfied with the Toyo’s; it’s only been four days. I removed the Continentals because they are worthless in the snow. As for experience with the OEM tires, this is my second truck that had the Conti Hybrid HD3’s; I had a 2019 F-450 before this truck. When I sold the ’19 it had 27k miles and the front tires were in bad shape; cupped and uneven wear. I can’t blame this on the Continentals; I suspect the F-450 eats front tires especially when towing heavy and when they are not steering tires. However, that is a different discussion for a different day and this truck was not displaying that problem at 20k. My sole reason for changing tires is winter performance. My Continentals were in good shape and ran smooth. I expected the same from the Toyo’s. I have run many sets of Toyo’s on company trucks over the years and have always been happy with them. I discussed it with the tire shop, they are going to work on it when I go back to town next week.

You are correct, just looked it up, Toyo calls for a rim width of 6.00-6.75 for the 225’s and 6.75-7.50 for the 245’s. I was negligent in my research, and, if my wheels are only 6”, I should have ordered 225’s instead of 245’s. I can’t imagine be able to sell these tires in my area for anything close to what I paid, I’ll just see how things work out. Toyo rates both the 225’s and the 245’s at 87mph, however I don’t drive faster than 65 when towing. Toyo M655

I agree with the issues you point out with balancing machines and techs, but not a lot I can do about that except keep trying and hope they get it right. I live in a rural area without a lot of options; the shop I am using is the best choice I have.

My reason for having Centramatics is the same; make up for less than perfect balancing jobs and having dynamic balancing that might prevent the problems I had with the previous truck at 27k. Perhaps I was expecting too much hoping for the Centramatics to take care of it all.

Thanks for taking the time to provide a comprehensive, thoughtful response. I’ll be at the tire shop a week from today and will see what happens. Worst case, I’ll try to sell the 245’s (along with the Continentals) and go back to 225’s; but, at this point, I think that is a rather drastic action and I still want a winter tire.

Thank again.