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It's interesting that the tires keep testing as out of balance. I had a trailer tire that wouldn't balance and Discount Tire said the wheel is bent. They put their tire balancer into technical mode to figure that out I think. You've had multiple sets of tires on the wheels and the problem doesn't go away, right? So maybe the wheels are the problem. Given that one of the sets of donor wheels/tires eliminated the problem should be a red flag.
It's interesting that the tires keep testing as out of balance. I had a trailer tire that wouldn't balance and Discount Tire said the wheel is bent. They put their tire balancer into technical mode to figure that out I think. You've had multiple sets of tires on the wheels and the problem doesn't go away, right? So maybe the wheels are the problem. Given that one of the sets of donor wheels/tires eliminated the problem should be a red flag.
Yeah, I intend to have Discount Tire evaluate the wheels as well. Thanks!
Since the Ford Dealership was complaining about the tires and shocks, I picked up the truck and decided to handle some items myself. So the changes they made were:
new track bar
new drag links
new steering damper
new rotors on the front (both were really worn and glazed but one was warped as well) and new pads on the front.
First I went to Discount Tire and they were awesome. I worked directly with the Store Manager. He did all the work himself and I was by his side the entire time as we inspected, tested, test drove, etc.
First thing we went for a drive without changing anything and he immediately said - these tires are not balanced.
So we pulled each tire and put it on balancer/road force tester and checked it. Every tire was out of balance.
Road Force Readings for each tire was:
Right Rear = 78
Left Rear = 35
Right Front = 16
Left Front = 9
He agreed with Ford that anything greater than 50 on road force “COULD” be a problem depending on the amount of weight required to balance it. So it is not a given that a high road force number was an indicator for the tire being wonky.
So we looked at the Right Rear first. He pulled the weights from it ran the test again, then deflated, broke the bead rotated the tire 180 degrees and re-inflated and rebalanced. The road force number went down to 61. He said, I can probably rotate this tire some more and get it to 50 or maybe high 40's but since FORD was complaining it about, lets replace it. So we replaced the tire. Balanced it and the road force number was 21.
As he went through the other tires two of the other tires were better balanced without the weights than the with the weights Ford put on them. Crazy - right. Anyway, in the end all tires were balanced reading 0.00 ounces of weight needed.
We went for a very long test drive…. The ride was MUCH better as the tires were balanced. I never had the steering wheel wobble (as Ford fixed that with the component swaps in the suspension), but the ride at times was not smooth. James pointed out that the ride smoothness would “come” and “go”. He said in his experience that is not the tires or wheels. He said unbalanced tires wobble constantly and don’t present an intermittent problem. I agree with that 100%.
He and I talked more and he said working with tire pressures could help but he thought maybe swapping shocks might be the next step. In his opinion - 45K miles on shocks especially the premium Rancho shocks I have is not a lot of miles. But he pointed out that towing heavy loads will shorten the life of the shocks - regardless of shock manufacturer. He his opinion was take the miles times 2 on the shocks for all the towing and that gives you a better indicator. I think is logic probably has some validity to as the shocks work harder and get way more extension and compression when towing.
As Ieft the truck drove better but the vibration was not gone. It had now shifted more to the seat and the rear of the truck with the front / steering wheel being much more stable.
So I drove the truck a bit and decided to replace the shocks. A week ago I replaced all 4 shocks with brand new Rancho RS9000XLs. They were all tuned to the softest setting and I spent this past weekend driving around, adjusting the shock settings and working tire pressures. The truck is much better but it is still not smooth like it used to be. The vibration happens at various speeds and seems to be more in the seat of the truck and rear of the truck vs the steering wheel.
I wanted to see how the truck drove with the trailer behind (13K lbs). Well that experience didn't go well. I found another problem. I started another thread on it: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ion-issue.html
Net-Net: I think the two issues are related. I believe the shake/shudder I am feeling now is coming from the transmission / torque converter. See the details in the thread above.
I had intended to come back to this thread and report that I started getting a vibration during my last highway trip. This was after a tire rotation. Discount Tire rebalanced the tires and only one came back with needing any change. They didn't give me the exact amount of change however. I haven't been back on the road to re-test it.
I had intended to come back to this thread and report that I started getting a vibration during my last highway trip. This was after a tire rotation. Discount Tire rebalanced the tires and only one came back with needing any change. They didn't give me the exact amount of change however. I haven't been back on the road to re-test it.
OMG! This has been a nightmare. I am a detailed guy. I pay attention to everything little thing about my truck from the temperatures, to rpms, to sounds, rattles, etc... If anything is off, I notice it. It is a curse - trust me. I guess I am a little OCD.
However, I am so glad I had the transmission act up before I got on my trip to Montana. I would not want to get stranded on a trip - been there and done that.
Ok an update on the vibration issue with my truck... The dealership (Covert Ford in Austin) has had it since June 14th. OMG what a cluster it has been....
Just a recap of what has transpired:
On March 27, 2023 - I had 4 new Michelin LTX AT/2 tires installed on my 2017 Ford F-350 at Discount Tire. I experienced terrible ride quality - the vibrations were noticeable at any speed over 45 mph.
On April 12, 2023, I returned to Discount Tire and had the tires rebalanced. The technician told me that all 4 tires were significantly out of balance. This was concerning since they were not balanced properly the first time. The vibrations were somewhat better but not totally eliminated after the second balancing. Discount Tire advised that I take the truck to the dealership to investigate suspension issues.
On April 17, 2023, I took my truck to the Ford Dealership (Covert Ford in Austin) to have it aligned and check out the vibrations. There was a recall and TSB on my F-350 concerning some front suspension and steering components. This was all addressed and things were improved but not I still had a ride quality issue. There continued to be a vibration in the steering wheel and in the rear of the truck.
Once the dealership finished their work, I left for a 3 week trip to Georgia. I experienced the bad ride and vibrations all the way to Georgia and back. It is barely noticeable below 65 mph. Above 65 MPH it gets worse the faster you go. You can feel the vibrations in the steering wheel as well as in the seat. It is coming from the front and rear of the truck. I tow a 40 foot 5th wheel camper that weighs about 13K pounds. When towing the vibrations are significantly worse.
On May 19, 2023, I brought my truck back to your Discount Tire. They were extremely nice and swapped out all four tires for another set of Michelin LTX AT2s. They also told me that the balance was now perfect. They also indicated that if I had further problems it was probably the truck and not the tires. Well the problem was not corrected. The problem was improved as the vibration was now less in the rear and now mostly in the front.
On June 14th, I took my truck back to Dealership (Covert Ford). They have had the truck for nearly 4 weeks now. The following has transpired at the Ford dealership:
They claim all of the suspension is tight and good. They did their own road force balancing on the tires and claimed that one of the tires was seriously out of balance and out of specification.
I contacted you on June 13th about them swapping out that tire. I believe that you guys worked directly with the Ford dealership to get that done.
This did not correct the problem so Covert Ford kept digging into the problem. They were convinced that the issue was the tires. So they ordered a set of Goodyear tires and had them installed on my wheels. The problem got better but didn’t go away. They then put on two sets of donor tires and whiles (from a new truck with Bridgestone tires) and the problem was eliminated with one set and came back with the other.
Finally, they discovered that I have a warped brake rotor on the front. They are now replacing the rotors and pads on the front of the truck. That should be completed today.
Covert Ford also things my front shocks MIGHT be contributing to this issue. The shocks on the front are Rancho RS9000XL adjustable shocks. The shocks can be adjusted from soft (setting 1) to very firm (setting 9). I have always run the front shocks set to about 5. They have turned the settings to 9 and improved the front vibration issue but not totally eliminated it. They claim this indicates that the shocks are bad. I have contacted Rancho and they have said the opposite. Net-Net: I am not sure if I have worn shocks or not at this point. They are 3.5 years old with about 50,000 miles on them.
Covert has performed the following:
They have inspected and tested my wheels to see if they are in good conditions - which they are.
They have installed new track bar, drag links, and steering damper.
They have checked the upper and lower ball joint deflection, all within specs and no movement on the ball joints.
Checked both front wheel hubs for excessive runout. Both fall within specifications.
Checked both hub lockouts to make sure they are not hanging internally, no issues found.
Installed new rotors and pads on the front.
Finally Covert Ford went back to rebalance my wheels and tires (the tires I purchased from Discount Tire). They found that three of the tires are out of specification according to their road force balancing machine. I have attached their read-outs from the balancing.
So at this point, Covert is claiming the issue was caused by a combination of: 1) warped front rotor, 2) tires that can't be balanced without excessive (beyond specification road force), and 3) POSSIBLY worn shocks.
Net-Net: Covert Ford says they have done as much as they can. They think the remaining vibration are coming from the tires and possibly the shocks on on the front.
So with all that said, what you do guys think? Tire issue? Shock absorber issue?
Below is the road force indicators from the dealership.
I'm having a vibration issue with my brand new truck. One tire had a ton of weight, so I Road Forced it using my own machine. it was 56 lb and 58 lb (ran it twice).
Hunter claims 40 is the limit for LT tires. My Ford service guy claims 45 rear, and 35 front on my F250. I think 3 out of 4 of your tires are no good.
It also sounds like at least one set of tires got rid of the vibrations. Sounds like enough info for me to say it is tires.
I would also not assume that the second set of donor tires were good (as it sounds like the vibrations came back with that set).
My 14 Mustang had a rear tire with a ton of weight on it. I thought it was a fluke, but then my 17 fusion had horrible Goodyear AS's
on it (vibrated like crazy until Mich 4SPS's put on, then smooth as glass) and now this brand new truck.
I'm convinced Ford knows they have at least some marginal tires, specifically putting worse tires (one's with a lot of weight) in the rear.
If the customer complains, maybe they will do something. If not, they saved money yet again.
Video I took. My arm, holding phone I am taking video with, is resting on center console (folded center seat, technically I guess).
I put the other phone in my lap for a good reference point. So far, dealer claims they don't feel anything. UGH!!
Yeah, I'm very detailed in knowing how my truck drives. That's how I knew I had a problem with a trailer tire before it had a chance to let loose. Turned out there were two trailer tires with different problems but at the same time. Fortunately, I'm OCD enough to carry two spare trailer tires.
Fortunately, I'm OCD enough to carry two spare trailer tires.
Longer trips I always do too. You blow a trailer tire early on in a long trip. Now you go the rest of the trip with no spare.
Seems crazy with how crappy trailer tires are made (compared to say an LT tire)
I'm having a vibration issue with my brand new truck. One tire had a ton of weight, so I Road Forced it using my own machine. it was 56 lb and 58 lb (ran it twice).
Hunter claims 40 is the limit for LT tires. My Ford service guy claims 45 rear, and 35 front on my F250. I think 3 out of 4 of your tires are no good.
It also sounds like at least one set of tires got rid of the vibrations. Sounds like enough info for me to say it is tires.
I would also not assume that the second set of donor tires were good (as it sounds like the vibrations came back with that set).
My 14 Mustang had a rear tire with a ton of weight on it. I thought it was a fluke, but then my 17 fusion had horrible Goodyear AS's
on it (vibrated like crazy until Mich 4SPS's put on, then smooth as glass) and now this brand new truck.
I'm convinced Ford knows they have at least some marginal tires, specifically putting worse tires (one's with a lot of weight) in the rear.
If the customer complains, maybe they will do something. If not, they saved money yet again.
Video I took. My arm, holding phone I am taking video with, is resting on center console (folded center seat, technically I guess).
I put the other phone in my lap for a good reference point. So far, dealer claims they don't feel anything. UGH!!
Oooofff! Sorry buddy. That is a severe shake worst than mine was. Your dealer is denial. I am convinced after this that weight placement makes a huge difference. The manager at Discount Tire that worked with said if the tire is requiring a lot of weight that weight needs to be distributed to the inside and outside of the tire - don't just pile it up on the inside. He said spin the tire on the rim until you can divide up the weight and make the balancer happy. Now he didn't define "a lot of weight" but I get his point.
Yeah, I'm very detailed in knowing how my truck drives. That's how I knew I had a problem with a trailer tire before it had a chance to let loose. Turned out there were two trailer tires with different problems but at the same time. Fortunately, I'm OCD enough to carry two spare trailer tires.
Oh, I forgot to say that when when I replaced the shocks the shock bushings on the drivers' side front (both top and bottom bushing) were worn. I mean severely worn. The hole in the bushing was no longer a circle. It was very elongated and and you could see that the bolt of the shock was wallowing in it. Obviously when I replaced the shocks, the front's got new bushings on both sides.
So that could have been one of the early contributing factors as well.
I should pull the Rancho shocks, just to check A) that they're tight, B) that the bushings are in good shape and C) that the shocks themselves are still functional.
I should pull the Rancho shocks, just to check A) that they're tight, B) that the bushings are in good shape and C) that the shocks themselves are still functional.
I would. I think my shocks were fine but I didn't want to hear the dealer or discount tire complain about it any more. Either way, it wasn't cheap but given the investment in this truck and effort on this problem it was a small price to pay.
So I drove the truck a bit and decided to replace the shocks. A week ago I replaced all 4 shocks with brand new Rancho RS9000XLs. They were all tuned to the softest setting and I spent this past weekend driving around, adjusting the shock settings and working tire pressures. The truck is much better but it is still not smooth like it used to be. The vibration happens at various speeds and seems to be more in the seat of the truck and rear of the truck vs the steering wheel.
I wanted to see how the truck drove with the trailer behind (13K lbs). Well that experience didn't go well. I found another problem. I started another thread on it: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ion-issue.html
Net-Net: I think the two issues are related. I believe the shake/shudder I am feeling now is coming from the transmission / torque converter. See the details in the thread above.
Besides my RF machine, another thing I have been playing with is this vibration app. Not cheap as far as apps go @ $100, but it seems to work pretty well.
It helped diagnose a driveline issue I had on my 14 mustang. The rubber around the carrier bearing was shot, and that thing only had 11K miles. http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG...630_150645.mp4
I went crazy for almost a year with multiple sets of wheels and tires, never thinking it could be driveshaft with that low miles.
Anyway, you put in trans ratios and tire diameter(s) and it can tell which vibrations come from either engine, driveline, or axles/tires.
(I don't think it would help with anything suspension or steering)
This is a report I did for fun on my Mustang with drag radials that flat spot like crazy after sitting (even parking with "flatstoppers"). I live about a mile from a highway.
As soon as I get to highway speed, you can see tires with a second order vibration of over 1G. After 8-10 miles, they "round out" and get way better at about .1 G's.
You do need a really good windshield mount, or some other way to mount your phone solidly to the vehicle.
