Hi, fellas.

I had an 86 351w that was frozen up - junk.

So I got an 83 (supposedly an 83 - can't read the first two digits on the block to truly identify it). Had the 83 short block redone. Ordered a balancer specific for the 83. Put it on and at TDC the pointer is 30 degrees off.

I grabbed the old ratty balancer from the box of parts from the 86. Put it on and it lined up perfectly at 0 degrees with #1 at TDC. The new 83 balancer and old 86 balancer look different (pic attached) - almost like they must be different weights (as if they weren't both 28oz) but they can't be different weights because the new 83 one is what was ordered specific for a 351w (and of course those are all 28oz) and the old ratty one came off an 86 351w that ran at one point.

The pointer I used was the one from the old box of parts from the 86.

So what is going on here? I thought maybe the pointer could be the issue but I think it's the same between the 83 and 86 - part # Ford F1TZ-6023-A.

All I want to do is get a dang balancer on the 83 that freakin' works.

Attached is a pic of the new one ordered for an 83 and the old one from the 86 engine.

Thank you - Thomas

 

Are there any part numbers stamped on the new balancer? I know they won't be Ford numbers but maybe a manufacturers number of some sort. It's not uncommon for them to put the wrong balancer in the correct box. I just had that happen with a set of brake shoes from Rock Auto. They wanted to know the part number on the wrong shoes, I sent it to them, and they sent me another set and they were the correct shoes in the correct box the second time.

 

top balancer is wrong for a 351W, that is a 50 oz imbalance balancer for 1982 and newer 302/5.0L engines. Bottom balancer is correct for a 351W/5.8L as its the 28 oz imbalance.

First get the right balancer on and then figure out the timing pointer issue. Could be the wrong timing pointer, Ford had three timing pointers, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock. The 11 o'clock is correct for our trucks and the timing pointer is the same between 302 and 351W engines. If your timing pointer not lining up you might need to buy a NOS timing pointer which is still plentiful online to buy and try that.

I have a 50 oz SFI approved balancer on my 302 with a NOS 11 o'clock timing pointer and at true TDC I found during my cam degreeing process the balancer lined up perfectly at 0* tdc.

 

Rusty - I thought the same as you on the top balancer (it being a 50oz) but it turns out I could be wrong. The Ford part number engraved right on it is E4TE-B3A. Turns out it is a 28oz balancer used on 351w's.

Google that and see if you're seeing what I'm seeing.

That's why this is so difficult.

- Thomas

 

You're right, I didnt catch the weight is considerably smaller, that is how Ford did their weights from the factory on the 28oz imbalance on 70`s models. The 50 oz has the same style weight but it wraps around 180* of the balancer while that one doesnt.

Both balancers will work but considering that is a 70's model balancer it could be possible the timing pointer is also from the 70s which may be the 10 o'clock position instead of the 11 o'clock position that our trucks use. Have you tried getting a balancer for a 70's model 351W to see if the marks are in a different position to the one you've been getting?

You can check this by placing the balancers atop one another aligning the keyway to see if they line up or not on the markings.

 

Okay fellas.

I aligned the keyways exactly. Take a look at the markings. They are more than 30 degrees off (almost 40). Remember the top one is new and specified for my 83. The bottom one is the old one that came off my froze 86. And the new one ordered for my 83 does not line up at TDC using the 86 pointer. But... the old 86 one (bottom in pic) lines up perfectly at TDC with the same old 86 pointer.
Does it seem like it's the pointer that's different? That almost makes sense if I could find an 83 pointer and try it out.

But does it matter? Does it matter if I just use a new version of the old ratty 86 one along with the corresponding 86 pointer? Or should I find out if an 83 pointer is really different? It almost must be. Let me know your thoughts when you can.

- Thomas

 

The new balancer on top flip it over and re align the keyways. You are mirroring the image and the markings wont line up that way as the markings are going in opposite directions.

You are also mirroring the timing pointer location as well when you do this so flip the top balancer over re align the keyway and see how the markings align then.

Also the timing pointers for the 302/351W engines are the same part number to 1989 in the parts and illustration catalog so the year of the balancer doesnt change where the timing pointer is situated at. The part number was also updated with a revised number in 1991 and may fit up to 1994 hear model 302/351 engines I cant verify this as I do not have a catalog that covers 1990 and newer vehicles.

 

Oh my gosh fellas! Look at this picture! It looks like I have an 11 o'clock pointer on there. And that if it were a 10 o'clock pointer it would line up perfectly at 0 degrees. Holy mother of pearl!!!

 

Better pic:

 

Where is the parts and illustration catalog? Is that on our site? I would like to find a 10 o'clock pointer.

-Thomas

 

Yep, that is a 11 o'clock pointer.

For the pointers the 1980 255, 302, and 351W engines used a D2OZ timing pointer designed in 1972. 1981 and up used the E3AZ timing pointer designed in 1983 which was replaced by the F1TZ version that most likely covers up to 1994-year model engines.

I can't vouch for 1980 on what timing pointer position it used but it used D2OZ-6023-A which was not replaced and 81/ used the E3AZ-6023-A which was replaced by with the F1TZ-6023-A and this is the 11 o'clock timing pointer position.

For the balancer itself the 302 used the D8TZ balancer designed in 1978 for the 1980 model year then switched to the E1TZ balancer in 1982 with the 50oz imbalance. For the 351W the 80 used a D2AZ balancer with the 351W getting a E1TZ balancer for 1981-83 w/EEC and a E2TZ balancer for 81/83 w/o EEC

Full number for balancers is as follows.

255/302 V8
D8TZ-6316-B : 1980
E1TZ-6316-A : 1982/83

351W
D2AZ-6316-A : 1980
E1TZ-6316-B : 1981/83 w/EEC
E2TZ-6316-A : 1981/83 w/o EEC

 

You will have to buy one either print or PDF, it is a huge catalog and it is not online in full.

You also have to know how to read the catalog to find what you are looking for and it does not state which timing pointer is what, it lists it by year/model application but doesn't state 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock so the catalog wont help you there. As pointed out in my previous post the timing pointer for a 1980 255/302 was designed in 1972 with part number D2OZ-6023-A and for a 351W it only goes back to 1981 with a part number E3AZ-6023-A which was replaced with F1TZ-6023-A which is the same timing pointer that was used for the 302.

I dont have a catalog for trucks for the 1970s to compare the numbers back then only catalog I have for the 1970s is for Ford/Lincoln/Mercury cars and there is no guarantee the timing pointers would be the same between a car and a truck. I know the 351W in my '78 Mercury has a 11 o'clock timing pointer as it sits in the same position as my truck does.

 

Rusty - I think this is the one I need and is at 10 o'clock - E3AZ-6023-A.

I'm going to keep researching.

 

I dont believe E3AZ-6023-A is the one you need.

E3AZ-6023-A was replaced by the part number F1TZ-6023-A

The 255/302 timing pointer was E3AZ-6023-A as well and was also replaced with F1TZ-6023-A.

F1TZ-6023-A is the timing pointer I ordered for my 302 and it lines up right on 0* at true TDC with the 11 o'clock balancer that is listed as fitting the 1982 and up 302 with 50 oz imbalance.

You can buy the E3AZ-6023-A if you can find it but I doubt its going to be a 10 o'clock position as its the same part number as used on the 255/302 engine and both was replaced by the revised part number in 1991 that is also 11 o'clock.

You will have to look at older as in pre 1972 as the 351W balancer used in 1981 was designed in 1972 which means 1972 - 1980 was the same balancer and a change was made for 1981 we know this wasn't a weight change it could have been a timing pointer position change but I do not believe so as the same part number is listed as fitting a 1980 302 and I know my '78 351W in my mercury has the same timing pointer.

Looking in my 70-79 car catalog for the timing pointer I see the following.

1973/ 351W C9TZ-6023-A : for Mercury, Montego, Cougar, Monarch.

C9TZ says this timing pointer was designed in 1969 and it fits my '78 Cougar which tells me that 1969 - 1979 used 11 o'clock timing pointer as I know that is what it is on my '78 Cougar.

So I dont think you are going about this right with the timing pointer trying to find the right one, I know Ford had a 10 o'clock pointer position but I have never seen what application used them. I know the 2 o'clock position was used on early Windsor small blocks with a passenger side inlet on the water pump.

If I was you, I would be looking at the balancer and if need be buying a aftermarket performance balancer if need be with the 11 o'clock position. They made them as I kept finding numerous 28 oz imbalance with that position when I was on the hunt for a 50 oz for my 302 build with the 11 o'clock position.

 

I think you're right about the E3AZ-6023-A, Rusty. Like you say, it's just the old part number for F1TZ-6023-A. Both 11 o'clock.

I do have a new balancer and pointer that match up at 11 o'clock at 0 degrees TDC. Should I just use them?

I just don't understand why my Dorman part number 594-277 (the new one that lines up at 10 o'clock) says it's for a 1983 351with ECC.

What is ECC anyway? Maybe that's the mix-up here.

-Thomas