400 gear timing
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Cross-Country
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400 gear timing
Hey guys! I'm putting gear timing in my 400 and I can't find much info on the install, Do I need to do anything to the timing cover to keep the dog bone in place? I have heard people talking about on small block chevys having to dimple to timing cover or put a button on it to keep it in place. Any help would be great!!
Grumpy goat
Joined: May 2017
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No, there is no need for a camshaft button on a 351M / 400. The camshaft retainer plate takes care of the end play.
What do you mean by "dog bone"? The only dog bones I know of, are lifter dog bones, for roller lifters. And the 400 doesn't have provisions for dog bones.
What do you mean by "dog bone"? The only dog bones I know of, are lifter dog bones, for roller lifters. And the 400 doesn't have provisions for dog bones.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: The Shenandoah Valley
No, there is no need for a camshaft button on a 351M / 400. The camshaft retainer plate takes care of the end play.
What do you mean by "dog bone"? The only dog bones I know of, are lifter dog bones, for roller lifters. And the 400 doesn't have provisions for dog bones.
What do you mean by "dog bone"? The only dog bones I know of, are lifter dog bones, for roller lifters. And the 400 doesn't have provisions for dog bones.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
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From: Wake Forest, NC
Ah, so that's what you meant by gear timing. It's called a gear drive or timing gear drive. It replaces cogs and chains known as a timing set. I do believe the idler gears float, but since it's an aftermarket replacement part any special instructions should have come with the kit.
Grumpy goat
Joined: May 2017
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You're not actually installing a gear drive timing set, are you? If so, then yes it requires something to regulate the floating gear carrier's fore & aft movement. It does float, and it cannot fall off the side,....until it fails. And when it fails, it's catastrophic. They're extremely noisy. They wear quickly, and introduce a lot of atomized metal into the oil as they wear. That in turn, wears every moving part & it's corresponding surface.
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Grumpy goat
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Very interesting. I didn't know any company made one for 335 series engines. What brand is it?
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So I do have it I bought it a year ago and I'm just getting ready to install it I haven't opened the package up yet but I don't think it's spring loaded. When I bought it I was trying to do some researching, and I seen one guy measure the distance between the block and the timing cover he then ground that longer stud down to fit. That didn't seem like it was correct but maybe it was? There is no instructions with it.
Grumpy goat
Joined: May 2017
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Yeah, that guy's method sounds janky. Unless he was using a surface grinder, then polishing the head to a mirror finish. But even so, that's still unacceptable in my mind.
If I was installing it, I'd use a machinist's straight edge across the block's timing cover mounting flange, and measure from there to the "button" or "stud". And take into account, the thickness of the gasket and RTV. Then machine down the button surface, while praying that the flange is actually perpendicular to the camshaft. But even that is way to imprecise for my liking. It just seems there should be something added, like nylon shims or something. But again, that too really bothers me. Between that, and all the other added moving parts, I couldn't get comfortable with it.
I hate when people sharp shoot other guy's choices, but I'm compelled ask why you chose this, over a good double roller timing set.
If I was installing it, I'd use a machinist's straight edge across the block's timing cover mounting flange, and measure from there to the "button" or "stud". And take into account, the thickness of the gasket and RTV. Then machine down the button surface, while praying that the flange is actually perpendicular to the camshaft. But even that is way to imprecise for my liking. It just seems there should be something added, like nylon shims or something. But again, that too really bothers me. Between that, and all the other added moving parts, I couldn't get comfortable with it.
I hate when people sharp shoot other guy's choices, but I'm compelled ask why you chose this, over a good double roller timing set.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2007
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I tried explaining this to my father for years, he loved the way they sounded. They also introduce weird harmonics and shock loads into the valve train that slightly change cam timing and could potentially break a cam in high HP/high load situations. A chain or a belt will absorb all that.
Grumpy goat
Joined: May 2017
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I tried explaining this to my father for years, he loved the way they sounded. They also introduce weird harmonics and shock loads into the valve train that slightly change cam timing and could potentially break a cam in high HP/high load situations. A chain or a belt will absorb all that.
It's hard to get a good consensus on these things. Few people will actually tell the whole tale when their component choices caused catastrophic failure. I've known a few guys that installed them (or had them installed), but never met a builder that would install one in his own engine.
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Cross-Country
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Well the only reason I'm doing it is cause this is the engine my dad built years ago, and he said he always wanted gear drive but they didn't offer it back then. So now that it's mine and they do I thought I would build it how he wanted to back then.