1999 V-10 spark issues
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4wd Low
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1999 V-10 spark issues
I have a 1999 Coachman motorhome with 90,000 miles on it. Up until now it has run flawless. (short of a DPFE module)
# 1-5 on the passenger side exhaust manifold idles at aprox 450* on each cylinder.
# 6-10 on the drivers side idle at less than 200*.
Naturally, when I drop it in gear it wants to stall .. and barely will move under it's own power.
I cleaned the injectors.
I put new NGK (full thread) plugs in, as well as a new set of coils.
I cleared the codes and then ran the engine again. This is the results.
PO 356 Coil F
PO 357 Coil 6
PO 358 Coil H
PO 358 Coil I
PO 360 Coil J
What am I missing, or better yet, where do I go from here ...
# 1-5 on the passenger side exhaust manifold idles at aprox 450* on each cylinder.
# 6-10 on the drivers side idle at less than 200*.
Naturally, when I drop it in gear it wants to stall .. and barely will move under it's own power.
I cleaned the injectors.
I put new NGK (full thread) plugs in, as well as a new set of coils.
I cleared the codes and then ran the engine again. This is the results.
PO 356 Coil F
PO 357 Coil 6
PO 358 Coil H
PO 358 Coil I
PO 360 Coil J
What am I missing, or better yet, where do I go from here ...
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4wd Low
Joined: Jan 2023
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Does each bank have their own coil harness that could have become possibly become unplugged (or dirty, corrosion) from the main harness ?
Does the PCM have a set of drivers for each bank, or is the ignition contained in one unit and a driver assigned to each coil ?
Is there a fuse (like for the injectors) that supplies (key on) 12 volts to the coil circuit ? Or maybe even each bank ?
What baffles me is that the driver's side bank does produce some heat at the exhaust manifold, It is less than half of the passenger side. It would seen to me that it would either be all or nothing. Not partial spark.
Where might I find a schematic for the electrical system for this engine ?
Would it be better to post this in another section where it might be more noticeable to a Ford electrical guru ????
Where are my points and condenser ... when I need them ..
Does the PCM have a set of drivers for each bank, or is the ignition contained in one unit and a driver assigned to each coil ?
Is there a fuse (like for the injectors) that supplies (key on) 12 volts to the coil circuit ? Or maybe even each bank ?
What baffles me is that the driver's side bank does produce some heat at the exhaust manifold, It is less than half of the passenger side. It would seen to me that it would either be all or nothing. Not partial spark.
Where might I find a schematic for the electrical system for this engine ?
Would it be better to post this in another section where it might be more noticeable to a Ford electrical guru ????
Where are my points and condenser ... when I need them ..
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: St Louis
Where are my points and condenser ... when I need them .. 
I was hoping that you'd say it was an E450 as that schematic indicates that your symptom makes good sense and is an easy fix. However, here's the schematic out of the service docs for what you have....
The data suggest that there is an issue at splice S158 which is located at "Engine control sensor fuel charge harness, near T/O for C196 fuel injector #7"
Most expedient thing would be to simply install a jumper between the two COP power wires for each bank (LG/RD) and see if that fixes it.
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4wd Low
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Thank you,
I see where wire #16 is hot out of the relay (key on) to splice #158 that goes to the coils as well as over to splice #160 to feed the left side.
Not sure what T/O means .. nor where to find splice # 196 (close to injector #7 you say, I'll look in that area)
Only LG I see is on the computer side of the coil. I was under the impression that the computer grounds the coil.
I don't see a RD in your schematic either.
Even with my glasses. 
I'll hold off till I hear back, but wouldn't jumping #16 provide what we are looking for ?
Ahh yea .. the beloved distributor cap ...
I see where wire #16 is hot out of the relay (key on) to splice #158 that goes to the coils as well as over to splice #160 to feed the left side.
Not sure what T/O means .. nor where to find splice # 196 (close to injector #7 you say, I'll look in that area)
Only LG I see is on the computer side of the coil. I was under the impression that the computer grounds the coil.
I don't see a RD in your schematic either.
Even with my glasses. I'll hold off till I hear back, but wouldn't jumping #16 provide what we are looking for ?
Ahh yea .. the beloved distributor cap ...
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From: St Louis
Oops, that color code should have been R(ed)/LG. Circuit #16 feeds both sides
"T/O" means "take out". Its where a branch circuit breaks out of a bundle. If you start at the wires for the #7 injector and work back into the bundle, you should find that splice.
Yes, that is what I was suggesting.
"T/O" means "take out". Its where a branch circuit breaks out of a bundle. If you start at the wires for the #7 injector and work back into the bundle, you should find that splice.
but wouldn't jumping #16 provide what we are looking for ?
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4wd Low
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Soooo, I finally got around (please don't ask) 
to checking out my motorhome's electrical gremlin.
Splice #160 was where you said it was. Just aft of the #7 injector. While it looks overheated, shriveled up, stuck to other wires, etc. The three wires going in all had continuity with the four coming out the other side of the splice.
Where might I find splice #158 .. (in the harness) I'm pretty sure the issue is at the feed side T/O or the wire making the trip to the second bank.
I might even get brave and use something bigger than a 22 ga. wire to feed the second bank ...
All kidding aside, Thank You projectSHO89
to checking out my motorhome's electrical gremlin. Splice #160 was where you said it was. Just aft of the #7 injector. While it looks overheated, shriveled up, stuck to other wires, etc. The three wires going in all had continuity with the four coming out the other side of the splice.
Where might I find splice #158 .. (in the harness) I'm pretty sure the issue is at the feed side T/O or the wire making the trip to the second bank.
I might even get brave and use something bigger than a 22 ga. wire to feed the second bank ...
All kidding aside, Thank You projectSHO89
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Hotshot
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From: St Louis
Well, actually I did give you the location for S158, not S160. You found S158 already. According to the schematic, it should have 8 wires in that connection. The EVTM says S160 should be at "Engine control sensor fuel charge harness, near T/O for C174 heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) #21"
As an expedient troubleshooting step, I'd simply jumper Bank 1 COP supply to Bank 2 COP supply and see if the engine runs properly. A simple way would be to disconnect the two RFI caps and use the exposed R/LG wire terminals as your connection points. The engine will run just fine without those caps but you'll wipe out any AM radio reception in the vicinity (most likely).
As an expedient troubleshooting step, I'd simply jumper Bank 1 COP supply to Bank 2 COP supply and see if the engine runs properly. A simple way would be to disconnect the two RFI caps and use the exposed R/LG wire terminals as your connection points. The engine will run just fine without those caps but you'll wipe out any AM radio reception in the vicinity (most likely).
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4wd Low
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Ford sensi, not to argue with you .. 
This little jewel came out of the #1 bank (drivers side) .. it has 7 wires. Your schematic calls it #160. But I will call it whatever makes you happy ..
If you please, to save me from fileting the rest of the harness open. Can you give me a point of the finger as to where I can find the distributer cap ... err .. where I can find the 8 wire splice on the passenger side / that is fed from the relay in your illustration, where it is called #158
I understand simply running a jumper from filter to filter. Two things come to mind:
1) I'm much deeper than that already.
2) I don't know where those are located either ...
This little jewel came out of the #1 bank (drivers side) .. it has 7 wires. Your schematic calls it #160. But I will call it whatever makes you happy ..
If you please, to save me from fileting the rest of the harness open. Can you give me a point of the finger as to where I can find the distributer cap ... err .. where I can find the 8 wire splice on the passenger side / that is fed from the relay in your illustration, where it is called #158
I understand simply running a jumper from filter to filter. Two things come to mind:
1) I'm much deeper than that already.
2) I don't know where those are located either ...
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4wd Low
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To avoid any further confusion .. if Ford calls the passenger side front cylinder # 1
Then why does SHO89's schematic call that bank 2 ... ???
Does anyone have a more true to life schematic including the R.H. bank 0-2 sensor T/O location.
Then why does SHO89's schematic call that bank 2 ... ???
Does anyone have a more true to life schematic including the R.H. bank 0-2 sensor T/O location.
Hotshot
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From: St Louis
That IS the factory schematic, you''re unlikely to get anything better anywhere unless someone has re-drawn it somewhere else. Of course, I can comment that I have found errors in Ford's documents in the past. I'm not seeing anything yet on the provided diagram to suggest it might be erroneous but I'm not the one with the engine in front of me to cross-check accuracy.
To clarify, in Ford-speak:
1. Left/right is based on the view from the driver's seat, not standing at the bumper looking at the engine. This removes the ambiguity of drivers/passenger side designation for a world-wide manufacturer that also produces right-hand drive vehicles.
2. Bank 1 is the right bank, bank 2 is the left bank. See #1.
3. Cylinder numbering for a conventionally oriented engine begins with #1 cylinder of bank 1 at the bumper to the firewall then proceeding to bank 2 in the same order. See #1 & #2.
4. "(HO2S) #21" is the upstream O2 sensor on bank 2.
5. The Bank 1 and Bank 2 annotations on the diagram previously provided is correct.
To clarify, in Ford-speak:
1. Left/right is based on the view from the driver's seat, not standing at the bumper looking at the engine. This removes the ambiguity of drivers/passenger side designation for a world-wide manufacturer that also produces right-hand drive vehicles.
2. Bank 1 is the right bank, bank 2 is the left bank. See #1.
3. Cylinder numbering for a conventionally oriented engine begins with #1 cylinder of bank 1 at the bumper to the firewall then proceeding to bank 2 in the same order. See #1 & #2.
4. "(HO2S) #21" is the upstream O2 sensor on bank 2.
5. The Bank 1 and Bank 2 annotations on the diagram previously provided is correct.
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4wd Low
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At 65 years old, I'm aware of the difference between my left and my right. I'm not here to learn or teach the difference between the two. Same goes for front and back. I'm also not in Europe.
Now that we have that cleared up ... I would like you to go back and look at your schematic and notice the blue boxes at the bottom of your illustration.
Notice how it calls the side your left hand is on .... bank # 1 . or better yet ... you tell how you see it written ..
I was only using that as a reference ..
However, after opening up the harness on the left side (AMERICAN driver side) I cut the SEVEN WIRE SPLICE out. As stated, it was / is fine and I will put it back how I found it.
Now I will also go back and find the 02 sensor on the PASSANGER side .. and open the harness on ... flip a coin and start in front of the sensor and work my way back to me (remember it's in a motorhome) . It's only a roll of tape, so if I open too much area, I'm not out much .. And I will report back as to what I find.
Until then ..
Now that we have that cleared up ... I would like you to go back and look at your schematic and notice the blue boxes at the bottom of your illustration.
Notice how it calls the side your left hand is on .... bank # 1 . or better yet ... you tell how you see it written ..
I was only using that as a reference ..
However, after opening up the harness on the left side (AMERICAN driver side) I cut the SEVEN WIRE SPLICE out. As stated, it was / is fine and I will put it back how I found it.
Now I will also go back and find the 02 sensor on the PASSANGER side .. and open the harness on ... flip a coin and start in front of the sensor and work my way back to me (remember it's in a motorhome) . It's only a roll of tape, so if I open too much area, I'm not out much .. And I will report back as to what I find.
Until then ..
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: St Louis
I would like you to go back and look at your schematic and notice the blue boxes at the bottom of your illustration.
Notice how it calls the side your left hand is on .... bank # 1 . or better yet ... you tell how you see it written ..
Notice how it calls the side your left hand is on .... bank # 1 . or better yet ... you tell how you see it written ..
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4wd Low
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Ohhhh so you added the blue box's at the bottom ... LOL
I think the confusion comes from someone forgetting that this is a motorhome, where the firewall is in front of the engine ... not behind.
Like I said ... days ago. I'm not concerned with left - right or indifferent. But rather where the wires actually are ...
I sincerely do appreciate the help, I do find it humorous that you ... wait, let me guess, your an engineer or some type of electronics nerd ... right ???? i get it, it don't madder whut the motor looks like in real life .. it's the pitcher that countz
I think the confusion comes from someone forgetting that this is a motorhome, where the firewall is in front of the engine ... not behind.
Like I said ... days ago. I'm not concerned with left - right or indifferent. But rather where the wires actually are ...
I sincerely do appreciate the help, I do find it humorous that you ... wait, let me guess, your an engineer or some type of electronics nerd ... right ???? i get it, it don't madder whut the motor looks like in real life .. it's the pitcher that countz