Glad to be here for my first post! I searched first, so if this has been addressed before please feel free to point me to the post and I apologize.
A few, hopefully simple questions.

I recently purchased a 1984 F-350 6.9 diesel, auto, 2wd which would have been a cab/chassis because it has a landscaping dump box installed which appears to be mounted on about an 84" cab to axle.
Cab is rotted out but fenders, etc. are o.k. , but if I found good ones I might do those too!
Are the bullnose 150's, 250's and 350 cabs the same. I think the cab chassis version has a bit wider frame rails than the standard 350 but was told you just need rotate the mounts to make them fit---that's 350 to 350.
I can get my hands on a decent 150 cab but not others at this point. Any differences between the 150,250,350 bodies that I might run into would be appreciated, but namely cabs at this point.

Thanks

 

Welcome to FTE

As far as I know all cab models fit any chassis.
Why make a different cab for a 350 cab/chassis setup when you can use the same cab on all chassis.

The difference on the cab/chassis trucks are behind the cab, not the carbs.
So that 150 cab will bolt to that cab/chassis chassis.

Now something to think about is the VIN numbers.
The law says you can not mess with them and the cab has 2 of them.
One is seen thru the windshield and is held on with funny pop rivets and you cant get them so DMV can tell you did a NO NO!

The other in the decal sticker in the door opening.
You cant peal them off as they get FOBAR and turn to scrap.
Now I think you can get coppies but you have to jump thru hoops to prove the sticker is yours.
Take a picture of it and of the title and send them in to have it made.

So what do you do with 2 different VIN's and maybe only paperwork for 1 VIN?
Paperwork would be for the cab/chassis truck right?
And hope you got a Bill Of Sale for the cab.
Check with your local DMV on what you have to do.
OR (you do not here it from me)
If the cab/chassis has plates and no one will be checking VIN or selling the truck, do the cab swap and motor on.
Just keep all paperwork for everything maybe in the glove box just in case.

Good luck
Dave ----

 

The VIN thing can be a can of worms. It seems simple, just scrap the old f350 VIN and use the VIN and title that comes with the new cab. That makes it easy to register it and get tags, but then you run into trouble if you want to use the truck as a f350. If you want just a show truck it would probably not be a problem, but using the truck to haul you will always be overloaded according to the paperwork since it is considered a f150 now. And the resale will take a hit, when someone buys a truck that looks like a f350 but the title says it's a f150.

 

Thanks for the info on the cabs, I would agree 'why make different cabs for different F-series', but then why put a starter bolt where you can't access it without yanking a motor and other dumb things.

As or the VIN thing, Wisconsin, after some prodding, in 2017 made it legal to switch the VIN with this text. Prior to the following being made into law, it was a 10,000 fine....a bit more than the truck would be worth. I'm in Wisconsin.

A person who repairs a vehicle or vehicle part may remove and replace a decal that contains an identification number if the removal and replacement is reasonably necessary for the repair. 342.30

EDITED to clarify. Switching is not legal, you can take off your originals and put them on the replacement cab. The windshield ones are easy but as noted the decals suck so we've used cutoff wheel and ground out plate, put it on a scanner and recreated on vinyl and applied it. Now I suppose you could just take a digital picture and print to vinyl as well. If you feel uncomfortable and any cop can certify for you this is what you did with an inspection.

 

Go for it then. The whole reason most places have these laws is to stop the chop shops and theft rings. But like everything else people who want to do something honest get swept up in it.

Don't get any ideas of putting on a pickup box on your f350. It won't fit. You also have an oddball rearend width, so if you ever need to change the rearend you will have to find another chassis cab rearend housing to put in it if you choose to change the whole thing.

Your rear chassis is more narrow than a pickup. It has a tall stack of narrow rear leaves also. Your truck being a chassis cab, has a industry standard chassis width that all other manufacturers follow. So aftermarket bed manufacturers can sit their beds on any chassis cab truck from any manufacturer, like dump beds, flat beds, utility beds, ambulance beds, etc. They all will fit on your truck.

 

Thanks Dave; my whole purpose for this truck is the dump feature that is on it for around the farm. Having a light duty dump bed and a wife that landscapes everything (soon may not have any farmland left) will hopefully save me from hauling/unloading trailer loads of stuff.

 

The VIN thing can surely be a minefield. Looks like you have the right answer if Wisconsin will let you keep the original VIN tags. I would do everything I could to make sure the original VIN stays with the truck. If you are hauling any amount of weight and they find you are overweight for the VIN from an F150, regardless of your chassis, you are in for a big fine.

Ford has always offered replacement cabs without VIN's for current year trucks. The process to move the VIN from your old cab to the replacement involved instructions from Ford how to do this with supervision from law enforcement, but it may be pretty difficult to engage such a process without official sanction from the manufacturer. Point here is there is a process and despite specific legislation in many jurisdictions, it is legally possible to replace the cab, (much like a fender or a door) and transfer an existing VIN to replacement sheetmetal. The best idea here is to not misrepresent what your truck is. Retaining an original VIN is not misrepresentation. Using an F150 VIN on an F350 may be.

 

Yes there is and if you check with the locals they sshould point you in the right direction.

The other thing I did not bring up or others is the stamped frame VIN.
It is on the top of the right frame rail and told it is between where the ALT is the just under the front of the cab floor, need to use a mirror to see it.
If the law sees any monkey bizz with the VIN's they can see easy they will go looking for the frame stamp and all must match.
Now in CT back in the day if you had all the paper work for all VIN's the state would give a new VIN to be used from that time on.
Dave ----

 

I should probably add a few thoughts myself.

The title and any VIN tampering legislation will be a state matter, (or provincial in Canada). The actual format of the 17 digit VIN is an NHTSA or FMVSS matter which makes it a federal jurisdiction. It would be a prudent decision to have a good heart to heart talk with someone knowledgeable in your local DMV or law enforcement agencies. What passes in one jurisdiction may not in another and it does not hurt to make some friends in those agencies.

Now, in the bullnose community, we have 17 digit VIN's staring in 1981, but the earlier trucks will have a different VIN format with fewer characters. Makes things a little more interesting to decode, but the model of the truck is identifiable from the VIN in all cases. This means the GVWR can be identified from the VIN and that is not something you can easily change at the DMV office.

Like Dave mentioned, special VIN's can be issued by your registration authority. Here in Saskatchewan, that commonly happens for homebuilt trailers and this may pose problems should you change jurisdictions. I had an incident many years ago with a homebuilt trailer licensed in Manitoba that I was towing when I got involved with a wildlife collision in Minnesota. My trip was completed successfully, but when I contacted the Minnesota police service that attended the scene for a report, I found out the officer was not satisfied with the registration of my trailer to the point he accused me of operating a stolen vehicle. Took some negotiating with the insurer and the RCMP to convince him otherwise, but he sure was not cooperative.

Finally, and to the OP's original question, yes the cab sheetmetal is interchangeable between weight classes, but if I recall correctly, the diesel trucks had different wire locations on the firewall. Might mean some cutting and patching if you use a gas cab to replace a diesel cab.

 

I would not worry too much about any special wiring for the diesel. That mostly consisted of the glowplug wiring, which was always giving problems anyway. Everyone wires up their own manual pushbutton switch for the glowplugs, I would do the same if I had a gas cab. And the original ignition wire to the coil on the gas truck can be used to power the diesel injection pump.

 

I am sure that this varies wildly from state to state, but the VIN issue has to have a solution. Many guys are completing frame swaps using either Crown Vic's/Marquis or Explorers on some of these trucks and are having to register them afterwards. I am sure that if you live in a state that does not have inspections, you can register as you wish at the DMV or courthouse, but if the state has to look at it, it can be an issue. Of course asking them for guidance can be a fiasco as they are not sure why this would be done.

 

1 or both of your truck were frame swap I think?
Do you wish to tell us what you did?
It is ok if you don't as we don't know who may be reading this
Dave ----

 

We kept the (original) truck frame on both trucks, using the front crossmember, engine and transmission from the donor cars on both. In this process, we have parted out a couple of trucks, but not sure how they intended on using the cab. On a side note, I am shocked at how many cars you see on Marketplace/Craigslist that openly advertise no title, being sold on a bill of sale. I would think that the local law enforcement folks would be interested in looking into them. Just recently I have tried to buy 3 crown vics and they all had no title. I steered away from them.

 

On the CV's if you were only using the front suspension like you did on your trucks and part the rest of the car(s) out then what is the big deal?
Unless you need a title to scrap the shell?
Or do you have DMV yearly check for safety and they would need to know where the motor / trans or more came from?
What if you got motor / trans or more from the junk yard(s) at different times you would not get a title for them just a BOS.

Now if you were to use the CV frame and drive train under a truck body then I can see needing the title and I am sure the CV frame must have the VIN stamped somewhere like our trucks do.

You are right on each state has their own rules.
In CT on older cars / trucks (forget how old) you do not give titles, I dont have one for my 75 AMC Gremlin, But here in NC they want a title for everything.
If I had the AMC in CT and had old reg papers for 5 years (IIRC) but no title NC will look at the reg papers as proof it is yours at least on my car trailer. At the time I could not find title for trailer or 5 years of old reg papers so it dose not have a plate at this time.
Good thing I dont need it LOL and the AMC need a lot of work beofre it can be put back on the road.

So each person need to check with their local DMV what the rules are.
Dave ----

 

I'll throw in my experience with cab swaps. I have done it 3 times. Twice with F series trucks. These two I have complete confidence in that they are entirely legal in Sakatchewan. What happened here is that I removed the public view VIN plate from the rusty cab by drilling rivets and I replaced the VIN plate on the replacement cab. I removed the door sticker and I also transferred a cowl tag and a tag between the box and cab so all numbers agree with the original documentation. The last two tags were held on with a single screw. Here's the caveat. "IN MY OPINION", I met any local requirement regarding VIN tampering in that I used the original VIN, which I already had registered to myself.

I had another vehicle, a Ranger, which I converted from 2WD to 4WD via a frame swap. This one, I have a little less confidence in as the frame VIN no longer matches the cab VIN. I registered it as the cab VIN on the advice of a local insurance agent. Here in Saskatchewan, registration and insurance are handled by one government entity called SGI. I no longer own this vehicle and you could make a case for misrepresentation here as the cab VIN identifies as 2WD and the truck remains similar in description, (single cab, short box) but clearly is now 4WD. I have another project waiting, also a Ranger, but an older one with the TIB suspension. This one gets to keep it's frame, but the plan was a V8 swap and TTB axles. All numbers would match and I have registration in my name, but the description will not match the VIN due to the 4WD conversion. It becomes a grey area when you consider misrepresentation, but the only way I know to get the description to read V8 4WD would be to get an SGI issued VIN, much like I would have to with a scratch built homemade trailer, but nobody will recommend this. Like it was said earlier, some questions are best left unasked.

I have another project pending and this one gets interesting. 1938 Ford truck on a Ranger frame. Yes, the 2WD frame from the first Ranger I mentioned. This VIN is already registered, but I have the registration in my name for the 1938 Ford truck. What makes this interesting is that the VIN for the 1938 Ford truck is stamped into the frame Rail and the transmission. There is no VIN plate or stamp anywhere on the sheetmetal. I do have the original frame and transmission and I will be not using them. So now what? Do I stamp the Ranger frame with the 1938 VIN? Does this pass the test of VIN tampering and/or misrepresentation in the province of Saskatchewan? Or do I go the government issued VIN route? I don't want to lose the year and identity of my 1938 Ford truck. A new VIN may replace 1938 with the year of construction and that brings a whole host of new factors that I really would rather not deal with.

Just in case anybody is thinking of those hexagon or rosette rivets that seem to bring $100 a pair at the swap meets, I used regular steel rivets when I moved the plates on the F series body swaps. There is nothing in Saskatchewan legislation that specifies Rivet style. I did hedge my bet somewhat with the urethane when I replaced the windows. Messy work near the VIN plate obscures the rivet heads. Nothing intentional here that could be seen as misrepresentation. Of course all of this is based on my opinion and my research into local laws and my queries to trusted sources in the registration and law enforcement entities, none of which came committed to writing. Big disclaimer here; Do your own research.

Last item to scratch you head over, take a look at the muscle car restorers. Good Mopar example at Graveyard Cars. Ford and GM have similar examples, search them for yourself. These guys are starting with nothing more than a few stamped scrap, a fender tag and a VIN number. Everything is reproduced for these cars and you can literally build a car with all new pieces. Original VIN's are attached and the finished product is presented as the real deal. The right options and build sheet can quickly bring 6 figure prices, maybe even more
Are they wrong? Are they misrepresenting the car? Are they tampering with the VIN? The industry seems to say no.