Hey everyone. I need the opinion of those here on the next best step. I am not getting oil to the rockers, 1960 with a 292. I have done these things already, not in this order...
- Oil pump was pulled, cleaned and new gaskets were put in.
- Dropped the oil pan to clean and replace gaskets. No major carnage found, bottom end "looks" good.
- Rocker assemblies pulled, shafts replaced with a new set from Mummert. Rockers were cleaned up, honed just a touch and reinstalled. Oil tubes had been ditched prior to me owning it. I tapped those holes and plugged them. The "high pressure mod.
- When that didn't work I pulled the rocker assemblies again and used solvent and high pressure air down the oiling holes in the head. I thought that worked...because I heard air down low in the engine.
-Fresh oil, 15w/40, along with a zinc additive.
First start after the air pressure "cleanout" and I had 50 psi oil pressure. No oil to the rockers. No weird low end noise and I eventually just oiled the rockers a bit while I dialed in the timing and idle mix screws. So, what is the next step? Do I pull the dizzy and try to oil it with a drill? With 50 psi I cannot see how that would help but I am grasping here.
Do I pull the heads and attempt to clean out the passages in the block?
Is this just a wrecked cam bearing or is there something I am missing? Thank you in advance for any help with this.

 

Well, you caused me to do some reading about Y blocks. May I ask why you are using such heavy oil?

I read thru this thread and found it informative. After Market Oil Lines, 292 Y Block - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com) You probably know this stuff if you have already tried to do the pressure mod.

If the engine has never been out and cleaned, with the sludge old oils used to leave in the galleys, they may well be causing some of your trouble.

 

Years ago, I heard that you never used high detergent oil in an old engine that non detergent oil had been used. I had forgot about that until spurredon mentioned it.

 

I remember 40 years ago or more we had a shop tow truck with a 292 and no oil to the rockers.
IIRC we bought a rocker oil kit that had something like copper line and you bypassed something with the kit.
Been so long now and we never added it as the motor was not worth it. It only did local pick up of customer cars so if it died who cared and just get the car back to the shop.

Dose the oil come up thru 1 of the rocker hold down bolts or is some other way?
As said be so long now
Sorry I dont have more info.
Dave ----

 

Truthfully it was the oil I had on hand and my thoughts were it could help with an older engine with most likely worn bearings and journals. I am trying to avoid pulling the head and most certainly would rather not pull the engine. I am hoping there is a step before those that I am not seeing.

 

Well, here is some info for you. sounds pretty interesting. how does the oil get to the rocker shafts on my y-block | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

There are lots of things to check!

1) If the rocker assembly is swapped or assembled incorrectly the passages will not line up. Hole to hole, slot to slot matching.
2) Old sludge in the slots and weep holes I had to clean out with a wire
3) center journal of the cam not drilled or adequately relieved to allow additional flow
4) center cam bearing installed wrong blocking the port
5) head gasket on backwards blocking the port
6) oil galley sludge
7) crush gaskets at the oil pump and pickup tube blocking flow
8) bad oil pump
9) blocked pickup screen

Well thats just iff the top of my head from my recent build (i only tapped the drivers side overflow to retain additional flow on the timing set). I will chime in again if something else pops up.


Install a guage and spin the pump with a drill & priming tool to determine the pressure produced and oiling rate

 

I appreciate the list of potential issues. The rockers are brand new and I have triple checked the oiling hole alignment so that eliminates a few of those items. The head gasket being put on wrong is interesting. Not that I can recall the head gaskets being replaced anytime recently but how that being done wouldn't cause a multitude of other issues, not just oiling to the rockers. As to the oil pump, crush washer, gaskets and screen being plugged. I am seeing 40 to 50 psi in oil pressure on a gauge that taps into an oil galley in the drivers side of the block. If the pump was an issues wouldn't I see both low oil pressure immediately and no oil to the heads? I cannot seem to wrap my head around one thing would exist and not the other.

 

Sounds like you have oil on the bottom end alright. Was it oiling good up top before? When did the upper end lose lubrication? Its a puzzle unless it never had decent upper lubrication. I think the only thing non-symmetrical on the head gaskets is the oil galley…

I would remove the rockers and pump it up. If it doesn’t gush out the oil holes in the rocker perches the next thing below that is heads & head gaskets Next below that is cam & cam bearings. You have verified pressures below the cam. Best wishes

 

1) Swapped, correctly assembled, rocker shafts will not cause this issue. They are assembled the exact same way and mount to each in head exactly the same. They seem different at a glance because of the relative orientation of the heads when installed on the engine.
3) The drilled cams are not likely to cause this problem. It is the grooved cam, which is most common, which can cause the problem because the journal has effectively less surface area and can wear into soft bearings, restricting or eventually stopping flow altogether. The groove depth and width on replacement cams are usually inadequate and make this problem more likely to occur in the future.
5) The head gasket cannot be installed backwards in a way that will affect oil flow. However, note that they can be installed backwards, which will cause overheating.
7) The oil pickup tube seal fits over the tube and the tube fits slightly into the entrance to the rotor or gear cavity. This is very unlikely to be the problem and you would have some idea if it was because it would have been very difficult to assemble and the seal would be inadequate, leading to much lower oil pressure due to air being drawn into the system. With 50psi, this isn't the problem.

At this point, since oil pressure is good and the rocker assemblies are clean and assembled correctly, the problem is most likely between the cam bearing and head. From this point, it will be best (and easiest) to pull the distributor in order to turn the pump with a drill or by hand. Something you can try before digging in any further is to acquire a spare rocker stand, cut it in half, drill and tap the center hole for a grease fitting, mount that to each head and see if you can force some grease through. You could also make this with some spare aluminum or steel. This can sometimes loosen up a blockage. If that fails, then you need to pull the heads and make sure the passage in the block is clean. If that doesn't take care of it and you dare, you can carefully try drilling a hole in the cam bearing. Use grease on the drill bit to catch metal chips, go slow and carefully and if oil does finally start to flow, flush it out. Otherwise, clean it out the best you can. This has been done. You won't be the first. Just be aware of the risks before YOU DECIDE to do it. If none of this works, then you will need an external oiling kit or it will need to be down farther down to try to find the problem.

 

We had a tool that was a long punch that fit snugly in the head where the rocker shaft mounts. With the rockers and push rods removed on one side the engine would be started, it idles fast like that. Then the punch would be driven down into the hole with some heavy oil or grease. Sometimes it worked. As someone stated it is a good chance that the cam bearings are worn to the point that the oil never makes it up the channel.

 

I really appreciate the thoughts and ideas. Before I get to far into the details I am glad I have dug into this engine at this point. Here are the updates:
- I double checked the spur gears in the oil pump and reassembled them. Still only getting about 40 psi spinning the hell out of it and no oil to the heads. Makes me wonder about the bypass. Could that be popping too soon?
- That said I pulled the heads and I glad I did. Oil passages are clear in the head and the block. Spinning the oil pump does get some oil at the bottom of the passage, in the block, but none to the deck. I cannot figure if that is a pressure issue or the cam bearing blocking the passage. My plan is to buy a small bore scope and run it down each oil passage to see if the bearing is the issue. If it is I am seriously considering drilling the bearing as the lifter design in this engine makes me not want to pull the cam.

So fun finds. The coolant passages are just terrible. I knew the cooling system need flushing but holy hell!! It is like a serious case of cholesterol!!

Arrow is pointing towards the firewall.
The two outside longer head bolts on the passenger side were not longer. Drivers side outer bolts were the longer style. With that I found the the #1 cylinder has been replaced, arrow is pointed towards the rear of the engine which seems wrong. Lastly the passenger side cylinder walls all have some amount of vertical scoring that I imagine I will need to address. I will attempt to attach a photo of that cylinder.

If I do elect to drill the cam bearing, aside from grease on the bit, what tips do you all have? My first questions are drill depth & drill bit size.

 

Before drilling get a stethoscope and put it all the way in the oil hole, spin the engine, if the tip of the scope is against the cam you will hear it dragging. I still think the bearings are worn and the oil is leaking around the shaft.

 

I think most arrows and tic marks are indicative to front of engine. From what goofyness has been found by you at this point I would personally tear it down and check/verify everything. You are smart to investigate, keep up the good work and keep us updated!

 

I am not sure if this observation will help, but I have noticed that, while spinning the oil pump, and at the same time gradually rotating the crank I find a spot where I can see oil build up at the back of the camshaft. I haven't been able to quite understand why at that point in the crank & cam rotation I get oil to well up there. Any ideas on that?