Theo, I would also like to hear your view, theory or fact.

As for the rest of you, ... Don't take this the wrong way, because this is not a flame. Just my opinion, maybe with a tiny bit of edification. So, Christmas is about CHRIST. The DAY we celebrate the birth of Christ. He is the only person we do that for. We don't go to the first of May and call that "Joeday" or "Joemas" But, what happens when we celebrate our birthdays? We gather our friends and family. Some of us go to church with our friends and family. Sometimes, for some of us, our birthday happens to be on a long weekend. "Government mandated" Others choose to make our birthdays INTO long weekends. This happens with Christmas too. Some of us go to church. Sometimes it makes a long weekend. If it's off by a day, we'll take an extra day to make it a 4 day weekend. Our friends and family come over.

Again, this is not a flame. Don't take it the wrong way.

Excellent topic, btw W3.

 

"How does one know that the story of Christ they have been born into isn't a bit distorted after a few thousand years?"
-- I believe that it has been distorted somewhat already, but that does not mean christians should give up trying to keep it from being distorted further.

 

When reading the reports of the circumstances concerning the birth, and the lowly hovel in which it took place, it is mentioned that the taxes were being collected by the Roman masters.. It would be a silly thing to do, to collect the taxes in April as our masters do - the worthies of the region would have almost expended their wealth by then.. The taxes were collected by the Romans in the first two weeks of the 9th month.. right when all the crops had been sorted and bagged after harvest. So, without any doubt at all, the Glorious Event took place in Bethlehem, during the first week of the 9th month. So, should we wish to be accurate in our celebrations,, you all missed it this year..

The Roman tax period is a matter of history..

Theo

 

not to sidetrack but I got to get this out

Theo: Didn't the calendar start in March back then? I can't say for fact, but I think it was true. By your logic, and my "calendar" it would be the first week of December.

 

Good evidence Theo, but I don't think you can throw the "without a doubt" clause in there. I need to dig into this sme more, open mindely of course.

And to touch on another aspect that has legitimately be brought up about the non christians poluting the holiday, we Christians are just as guilty. Most churches make just as big of a secular display as the non (practicing) Christians by decorating and having christmas trees in the church ect.

Jeremiah 10:3-10:5 gives some insight on the cutting of a tree and decorating it.
For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forrest, The work of the hands of a workman with the ax.
They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers so that it will not topple.
They are upright, like a palm tree, and they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, nor can they do good.

What does all that mean? Well you decide for yourself. It is just a passage I found that seemed to pertain to the christmas tree. And yes we have one.

By the way, the best christmas we ever had was on our road trip in 1996. We unintentionally, almost totally avoided the commercialization, we had no money and were 4500 miles from home so we just made decorations for our 16 foot trailer, exchanged a few hand made gifts, baked a cake and had a birthday party for Jesus. That is still the most memorable Christmas that 6 of my 9 stepkids ever had.

 

Wow, with some people you try and stop a fight and another one starts. Am I a kid now? Please, tell what I've done that makes you think me to be childish. Really, I'm not sure what's more childish...having respect for others for their beliefs or not thinking before you speak. Sinjin, you remind me of my brother...real big guy and very intelligent. He will be a lawyer one day, but he only has one flaw. He lets his temper get the best of him. I can't say I'm not guilty of this too, but from your post (unless you were being sarcastic which I apologize if you were) I guess we can just throw maturity right out the window.

Also, if I have said ANYTHING that you took offense to I really do apologize. That definately was not my intent. Please, let me know if I offend you with what I say, and I'll work it as best I can. I know I can be a little extreme with God and all at times, but that's just how I am. Again, sorry for offense that was out of place. Also, I'll keep the priest thing to a more mature level too.

true4.2

 

Nothing like a new morning to set things back in perspective.

Seifferlein,

I can only point out this -

It isn't the non-religious that record and pass on the history of the religious.

The actions of those outside the Christian Church can only change the meaning of Christmas within the Christian Church if they allow it to happen.

A couple of points regarding that -

1) The TRUE meaning of Christmas for Christians, as it has been celebrated for 100's of years, has never changed. It has remained static despite all this history and even persecution. To think that Walmart can change that is kind of off base I'd say.

2) The "sideshow" of Christmas has been constantly evolving. How Christmas is celebrated AS A HOLIDAY, and even many of the much closer "religious" aspects, has changed dramatically with time, and varies dramatically by culture.

Anyone that seeks the church, will seek the true meaning of the church, if they are caught up in the trappings of the non-religious, their quest was likely insincere.

Besides, Christmas, the non-religious Christmas, is a pretty good gig, dare I say more fun than the religious version. It may not be such a bad thing to have people think of that first. You have to get them in the door before you can give them the old up sell.

Also, there's no such thing as an unbiased jury.

Waxy

 

Today is another day and yes for the first time here I was getting angry. My fault, not yours. Let us let bygones be bygones and together attempt to shed light and not blood.

Humbly,
Philip

 

On a 5 hour drive to look at an old Ford pickup yesterday, I had a thought about this subject to share. The way that a good many of non (practicing) christians observe christmas is by getting familys together, being generous, thoughtful, considerate, charitable ect. I don't think my Jesus would have a problem with that, and if he did it would be that you don't do it more.

Now before any of my family was saved(we all now are) we all got drunk on christmas and played poker all night. I am pretty sure that Jesus would not think that is a good way to pay homage to Him.
Thats all.(for now)

 

Excellent point!



Also, consider this:

I guess this might be geared more towards Seifferlein...

You are celebrating Christman with your family. A non-believer, homeless, and without money walks up to your door and knocks. You answer the door and he tells you he would like to spend X-Mas with you. He has no presents. He has no money. All he has is himself. Like I said, he is a non-believer... According to what you say about non-believers and X-Mas, what would you do?

BEFORE YOU ANSWER...what would Jesus do? I think that kinda puts things in perspective. (for me anyways)

 

In our house we wouldn't even have to think about it.
Now on a bit of a gloomy note, christmas is also a season that brings a steep esculation in the suicide statistics. Maybe this year you could reach out to someone, I guarantee that you would be several steps closer to Jesus whether a follower or not. And it would be a christmas that would stand out for you above all the rest.

 

"You are celebrating Christman with your family. A non-believer, homeless, and without money walks up to your door and knocks. You answer the door and he tells you he would like to spend X-Mas with you. He has no presents. He has no money. All he has is himself. Like I said, he is a non-believer... According to what you say about non-believers and X-Mas, what would you do?"

I think you misunderstand what I said about non believers and Christmas. If he is willing to learn about God and wants to see the story of Christmas, then yes I would let him in. (no, I am not just saying that.) What I don't like about non believers and
Christmas are the non believers that cash in on the holiday (and I am not just talking about making money) Like I said in many of my other posts, if you have an open mind willing to learn then celebrate Christmas. Jesus would not be happy with someone who tries to cash in on the holiday. I have tried to make this a very firm distinction. If you are willing to learn; celebrate. If you have no intentions of learning, then don't celebrate the holiday to get what you want.

 

Please take this in the spirit I wish to teach, not criticize....
If you open you heart to ANYONE, it may make them think, Jesus never told anyone to ignore dis believers.. To do so is to make very sure nobody believes anything. You cannot exclude someone because your demand they learn of God is refused. They came to you by what impulse???? The example of unexpected kindness is one that has converted many folk who had no intention of listening to anything.

 

Well said Theo. And as most of us know Jesus tended to hang out a lot with unbelievers.
And on an slightly off subject note; Jesus, by tradition usually went to teach in the "church" when he first got to town, but his most intimate and profound meetings were in small groups or in someones home. Is there an example here?

 

How about Allison singing "White Christmas"? I would be transported to heaven.