Liberals vs. conservatives
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Pittsburgh
Originally posted by dashashopdog
well a conservative will always support small goverment, the less someone tells you what to do the happier they are. a liberal really likes large goverment. socialized medicine is great, we need more people in washington to fix the problems the politicians make. they want goverment groups to monitor and reform campaign spending, welfare, the enviroment, etc.. the conservatives feel this is a waste(me, my wife scored a 33). tired of paying taxs for hookey laws that only are there to prove that someone is actually doing there job. since californis has introduced the CARB( one of the most expensive costs to californians BTW) the smog index in the silicon valley has gone up by four folds, and in the la basin it has tripled.. the growth, and vehicle population doesn't support the amount of smog being made. so they want to increase taxs so they can install roadside "gross polluter machines", basically get you off the road if you fart, while you drive by. more smog laws to make the air cleaner, so we need more tax's to support the costs. a liberal will also curse big business for paying way to little in taxs, but the more money the company has the more employees it has, which means less welfare, and more money being spent. which means more jobs, and more jobs mean more money, etc.. the circle just goes. with more taxs, less money that can be spent and the less money in circulation which means recession, or worse, depresion. tired of social security, i am paying some 8-10 times more than they ever put in. it costs me money in taxs. a smart person will invest what little you have to support them when they retire. my father draws no income from social security( he is 73) he only draws on the retirement the DOD gives him, as well as the intrest on the 401k's and PRF he made over the years. smart huh.. i am doing the same, as well as building a strong business for my wife and i to live off of, and at no other tax payers costs. hope that helps a little..
basically
liberal- big goverment-more taxs from business, large and small
conservative-investor-small taxs-small goverment
well a conservative will always support small goverment, the less someone tells you what to do the happier they are. a liberal really likes large goverment. socialized medicine is great, we need more people in washington to fix the problems the politicians make. they want goverment groups to monitor and reform campaign spending, welfare, the enviroment, etc.. the conservatives feel this is a waste(me, my wife scored a 33). tired of paying taxs for hookey laws that only are there to prove that someone is actually doing there job. since californis has introduced the CARB( one of the most expensive costs to californians BTW) the smog index in the silicon valley has gone up by four folds, and in the la basin it has tripled.. the growth, and vehicle population doesn't support the amount of smog being made. so they want to increase taxs so they can install roadside "gross polluter machines", basically get you off the road if you fart, while you drive by. more smog laws to make the air cleaner, so we need more tax's to support the costs. a liberal will also curse big business for paying way to little in taxs, but the more money the company has the more employees it has, which means less welfare, and more money being spent. which means more jobs, and more jobs mean more money, etc.. the circle just goes. with more taxs, less money that can be spent and the less money in circulation which means recession, or worse, depresion. tired of social security, i am paying some 8-10 times more than they ever put in. it costs me money in taxs. a smart person will invest what little you have to support them when they retire. my father draws no income from social security( he is 73) he only draws on the retirement the DOD gives him, as well as the intrest on the 401k's and PRF he made over the years. smart huh.. i am doing the same, as well as building a strong business for my wife and i to live off of, and at no other tax payers costs. hope that helps a little..
basically
liberal- big goverment-more taxs from business, large and small
conservative-investor-small taxs-small goverment
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Calgary Canada
22.
Right about where I figured I'd be.
Pretty easy to tell which questions really determine where you'll end up though.
Waxy
Right about where I figured I'd be.
Pretty easy to tell which questions really determine where you'll end up though.
Waxy
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From: Detroit Subs
Politics
Originally posted by Iwantatruck
What is the difference? I have never been interested in any form of politics, but I want te learn a little.
What is the difference? I have never been interested in any form of politics, but I want te learn a little.
All the rest is just shades of gray.
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From: Calgary Canada
Re: Politics
Originally posted by jpsartre12
If you want to learn about what it means to be a true Conservative, read Thomas Jefferson's writings. If you want to learn what it means to be a true Liberal, read Karl Marx.
All the rest is just shades of gray.
If you want to learn about what it means to be a true Conservative, read Thomas Jefferson's writings. If you want to learn what it means to be a true Liberal, read Karl Marx.
All the rest is just shades of gray.
I think communists are communists.
IMHO, if you're a liberal, you're somewhere in between.
Just a thought.
Waxy
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From: Detroit Subs
Re: Re: Politics
Originally posted by Waxy
Do yo really think most liberals are communists?
I think communists are communists.
IMHO, if you're a liberal, you're somewhere in between.
Just a thought.
Waxy
Do yo really think most liberals are communists?
I think communists are communists.
IMHO, if you're a liberal, you're somewhere in between.
Just a thought.
Waxy
Remember, I said everything else is shades of gray. There is a strong tendency of liberals to embrace Karl Marx's "From each according to his means; to each according to his needs" philosophy, but few take that tendency to its ultimate conclusion, communism. Thank God.
I've always found that argument to be a liberal's way to justify robbing the rich to give to the poor.
It is a morally vacuous philosophy.
Not trying to be one-sided, I also think that most Conservatives are liberals in wolf's clothing.
The recently passed prescription plan is a great example of a governmental handout to those who don't nor shouldn't need it. The fact that it was the Republicans that pushed this $400Billion social program through scares the Hell out of me.
I'm going to have to be very diligent in seeking out Libertarians to back in the future, I'm afraid.
At least, their philosophy is close to my Jeffersonian Liberal beliefs. (Don't be fooled by the term "Liberal"; it has a different meaning when associated with Jefferson, than it does today.)
Postmaster
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From: Calgary Canada
Morally vacuous???
Please explain.
I'm also very interested to hear what liberal means when associated with Jefferson. (I'm assuming it's not the normal derogatory meaning used on FTE)
Waxy
Please explain.
I'm also very interested to hear what liberal means when associated with Jefferson. (I'm assuming it's not the normal derogatory meaning used on FTE)
Waxy
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From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by Waxy
Morally vacuous???
Please explain.
I'm also very interested to hear what liberal means when associated with Jefferson. (I'm assuming it's not the normal derogatory meaning used on FTE)
Waxy
Morally vacuous???
Please explain.
I'm also very interested to hear what liberal means when associated with Jefferson. (I'm assuming it's not the normal derogatory meaning used on FTE)
Waxy
And back in Jefferson's day, a Liberal was, in reality, a Conservative. They believed in minimal governmental control and they distrusted government in general.
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From: Calgary Canada
I guess I'm morally vacuous.
If a liberal was a conservative, then what was a conservative?
I'm just playing word games here, because that's all that liberal and conservative are, is words. We seem to define them in whatever way suits us.
My definition of a "liberal" is one who sees both ends of the spectrum and attempts to take the best that each has to offer to forward the interests of everyone.
The beauty of being "liberal" is that you aren't tied to the dogmatic belief of being either neo-capitalist or communist.
I'd venture to say the over 90% us are liberal by that definition.
It's only liberalism that drives things forward, otherwise, all would be stagnant. Strict religious rule such as that enforced by the Taliban would be my example of the consequences of a society where liberalism was banned.
Waxy
If a liberal was a conservative, then what was a conservative?
I'm just playing word games here, because that's all that liberal and conservative are, is words. We seem to define them in whatever way suits us.
My definition of a "liberal" is one who sees both ends of the spectrum and attempts to take the best that each has to offer to forward the interests of everyone.
The beauty of being "liberal" is that you aren't tied to the dogmatic belief of being either neo-capitalist or communist.
I'd venture to say the over 90% us are liberal by that definition.
It's only liberalism that drives things forward, otherwise, all would be stagnant. Strict religious rule such as that enforced by the Taliban would be my example of the consequences of a society where liberalism was banned.
Waxy
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From: Detroit Subs
Morally Vacuous
Many of us are morally vacuous in one form or another., so don't sweat it. 
As for the labels "Conservative and Liberal", today's use of the terms is very mottled, hence my comment about shades of gray. Without knowing the historical context of C & L's, black and white contrasts that existed in the past blend into one another.
Your definition of "liberal" is a modern one. It is neither historically accurate nor pure from a philosophical sense.
Modern US liberals see the Constitution as a general guide. They reinterpret the term "promote the general welfare" in the preamble as carte blanc
license to steal.
A modern conservative is not too far removed from the modern liberal, but he holds the Articles of the Constitution in slightly higher regard thn the nebulous statements made in the Preamble.
When you say that the beauty of being liberal is that you aren't tied to dogmatic beliefs, you're really saying that your actions aren't bounded by definite principles. To me, that's OK for Canadians, but not acceptable for US citizens. We should hold our Constitutionally-guaranteed rights sacred and defend them vehemently from all attempted persersions. Unfortunately, too few of us have ever read the US Constitution and even fewer see the profound wisdom in it.
So, today we have two parties of pragmatists, neither guided by principles.
While you may argue that pragmatism is necessary in order for a society to progress, I would argue that it is a dangerous practice that if left unchecked, will cause the ultimate downfall of the world's greatest example of freedom.
The sad fact is that the majority of us are liberals in the sense that we act without regard to fundamental principles.
As for the labels "Conservative and Liberal", today's use of the terms is very mottled, hence my comment about shades of gray. Without knowing the historical context of C & L's, black and white contrasts that existed in the past blend into one another.
Your definition of "liberal" is a modern one. It is neither historically accurate nor pure from a philosophical sense.
Modern US liberals see the Constitution as a general guide. They reinterpret the term "promote the general welfare" in the preamble as carte blanc
license to steal.
A modern conservative is not too far removed from the modern liberal, but he holds the Articles of the Constitution in slightly higher regard thn the nebulous statements made in the Preamble.
When you say that the beauty of being liberal is that you aren't tied to dogmatic beliefs, you're really saying that your actions aren't bounded by definite principles. To me, that's OK for Canadians, but not acceptable for US citizens. We should hold our Constitutionally-guaranteed rights sacred and defend them vehemently from all attempted persersions. Unfortunately, too few of us have ever read the US Constitution and even fewer see the profound wisdom in it.
So, today we have two parties of pragmatists, neither guided by principles.
While you may argue that pragmatism is necessary in order for a society to progress, I would argue that it is a dangerous practice that if left unchecked, will cause the ultimate downfall of the world's greatest example of freedom.
The sad fact is that the majority of us are liberals in the sense that we act without regard to fundamental principles.