Back in the day, when i was younger and broker, I used 3 sets of heads on Ford 302 engines. Block huggers, Slickfits, and Hooker headers. They all leaked and blew out gaskets, and were a pain. They were noisier than the cast iron exhaust manifold too, which made the cabin noisy. Looking back, a good set of stock exhaust manifolds would be the way to go. I suspect there isnt too much difference in performance.

 

The stock manifolds on the 351W aren't the worst design in the world, but I wouldn't call them good. Shorty headers are going to flow better, which is generally going to make the thing be happier up higher in the RPM range.

I've not done shorties on a 351W in a truck application, but I have on a 302, and I didn't notice a *huge* difference in how it felt to drive, under about 3000 RPM. If you are wanting maximum torque production at a usable RPM, Full-Length headers are what you want. And you absolutely will notice a driveability difference if you go direct from the OEM Manifolds to Long Tube headers.

 

DUH! (smacks myself on the forehead). I should have thought of that. I blame it on a mental hicup. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I'm not dead set on Banks and it wouldn't matter if I was since they don't make 'em for this rig. I just know they always fit well, are problem free most of the time, and last, that's all. It is the known quantity vs the unknown is all. Other manufacturers may very well make good products, I just don't know them. That's why I am asking here.

When it comes to the computer control stuff, my knowledge is very limited. What little I do know comes down to this. Speed Density Fuel Injection systems (at least from Ford) have 2 major drawbacks. They are bank fired making them far less efficient and they are very sensitive to the changes made to the engine system. Meaning they are limited in the programming you can do to them and thus limited to what you can do (like cams, heads, etc). The Mass Airflow Fuel Injection systems are sequential fired injectors, making them much more efficient (you can get up to 2-3 mpg gains with the same hp and torque sometimes with just this swap). They also have a much much wider band of programming ability to incorporate things like heads, cams, intakes, compression, etc etc.

You are right about some nice advanced systems out there. I myself was looking at the edelbrock pro flo systems as well as holly's stuff. BUT! Now this is where my knowledge falls way short. I am going strictly by what the local fuel injection computer programming guru told me on this. He said I could do one of the aftermarket systems, but I could kiss all my gauges, tac, and idiot lights (like service engine, abs, and so forth warning lights, bye bye. I kinda like having my engine tell me when say one of my o2 sensors has gone bad or a wheel sensor for the abs has gone bad, as well as my gauges and tac etc.. So I opted right out of the aftermarket stuff right there.

You guys feel free to correct me on any of this stuff. I won't get my panties in a bunch.

I do some 5th Wheel towing and so my interests are always in the idle to 5500 rpm zone for the HP and Torque (5500 is actually a bit unrealistic for me). Thus, the LT are pretty much what I have been told I should go with to focus on the low end torque etc. Maybe I'm wrong??? But most seem to agree with what you said.

Now the heads are a different matter. I originally thought to go with the 185, but the 165 recommendation came straight from an AFR engineer. He said the 185 would throw my HP and Torque curve way up over the RPM range I should be looking at and flat out told me it would be a mistake if went with anything other than the 165. He was very clear on this and adimate about it. He also gave me the exact specs I needed on a cam grind to match those heads and the intake I chose (edelbrock performer) for maximizing my towing ability. So that one is pretty much a sealed deal.

Ya know, you aren't the first person to say this. I am starting to wonder to be honest. I know that on a 460, headers are a must over the factory manifolds. The factory manifolds were so bad and the 460 cubic inches needed the extra breathing room. I admit I am wondering if the little 351 even needs it. With the cost of the heads and intake and cam etc, I just didn't want to restrict it. Thought anyone?

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And this goes right back to thus just previous idea. Will the headers make a difference? Some say yes, some say no.


At this point, I am still not seeing anything out there for this truck other than Hooker, Hedman, Flowtech, and Pacesetter. I guess it is going to come down to quality and fitment. Which one is going to fit in this truck best without having to bend this or cut that along with the EGR, and which one is good quality for no warping, leaking, rusting, etc? So which one have you guys found to be the best fitting and higher quality?

BTW, thanks for all the inputs guys. This IMHO has been a great conversation thus far. I do appreciate it...
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Not saying the Terminator X is the only or best way to go by any means, but I do know that, if installed properly, all your factory gauges will remain functional.

Similarly, while the factory ECM operates on bank fired basis, the Terminator X system hijacks the fuel injector wiring and fires the injectiors sequentially, thus eliminating the inefficiency of the bank fired system, improving tunability, and performance.

I'm not an expert on the system by any means, just repeating what I was told via my friend. Either way, for $1,300 it's a substantial improvement over the factory computer and worth the money if you intend to go into the motor much at all.

 

If your combo is set, good deal. Anything is better than the peanut camshafts in these and the trash E7 heads and that intake, heads, cam, full exhaust will perform so vastly different it will not be funny. Flat tappet 302s of this era I have seen dynoed around 125-135rwhp...gutless.

Scorpion is going to have a sale on roller rockers in November again, unless you plan to reuse the stamped steel guys. I have their set on my 4.9, my 5.0 has the 93-95 Cobra Crane units. Are you retaining those dished pistons on the 351W?

Heavy wall primary piping reduces cabin noise for headers...but headers allow it to make more noise as breathing deeper. Like installing an open intake on vehicle/removing the air silencer. The stock manifolds on these are pretty lame, the outlets are the major restriction. Thorley made headers for these, maybe they still do. Stans I think still offers them.

I would be curious about the 5'er weight, you may end up just pulling in 1:1 gear on your application keeping it on the power. Hell, my '96 dually turns 2500rpm @ 70mph with a 4.10:1, ZF S5-47, and 30.5" tyres....that is right atop of the power in that 7.3DI.

 

I've used Hooker and Flowtech headers. Hooker headers are more expensive, but they're solid pieces. the fit on the Hookers was right and I had no exhaust leak issues. The Flowtech headers were much less and a good bit lighter than the Hookers. I had to stack 2 header gaskets on the drivers side to fix a header flange leak. The stacked gaskets fixed that issue and they were fine after that. Both were equal length shorties and the power gains were noticeable right away. I have a set of modified heddman headers now that started out with an HTS coating on them. That coating lasted many years, and then I had them stripped and ceramic coated. I have noticed some rust issues, even with the ceramic coating, where the primary tubes meat the inside/center of the collector. Otherwise the rest of the coating looks fine, and they get a little dose of metal polish to keep the coating looking good.

 

Thanks, I will get together with my local programmer guru and see what he says.

 

oh yeah, better rockers are a given! :-). I’m not sure on the pistons yet. I want to stay in the lower compression range to be able to use cheap 87 octane gas.

as for the 5er(s), I have 2. 7500 lb and 10500 lb. This truck is responsible for the 7500 lb unit, maybe occasional on the 10500. But my other 1990 F-250 is responsible for that one mostly. It has a 460, banks exhaust system, ported and bigger valve heads and ported intake. I want to convert it to mass air flow also at some point. Both have the e4od transmission and sadly, both have the 3.55 gears. I may change the 460 to 4.10 at some point.

 

Thank you for that input. I have used hooker headers in the past and they seem to be hit and miss. Some fit well and some don’t. Unless they have changed over the years, they are not the thick flanges some have. I have never used flowtech, but the consensus seems to be that they are cheap headers and fall into that you get what you pay for category. Given the choice between those two, partially due to your input, I would choose the hookers over the flow techs. That leaves the headman and pacesetter headers still as an unknown.

 

These are the only options I have found. I did see Doug Thorely somewhere but they were painted, not ceramic.

Hedman - both are .38 flange and ceramic. I would probably go with black just because they are cheaper and seem to be the same header unless I missed something.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...-250/year/1990
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...-250/year/1990

Flowtech - Probably a no go based on what I have heard unless someone here says otherwise. .31 flange.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/b...-250/year/1990

Hooker - I don’t know, they seem hit and miss. That and .31 flange.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...-250/year/1990

Pacesetter - the apparent leader followed closely by Hedman, just based on internet searches. .38 flange.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...-250/year/1990

Right now it is between Hedman and Pacesetter I think. I am hoping some people will chime in with info on either or both of these since they are both complete unknowns to me personally. Or, did I miss some awesome headers out there somewhere?

 

If the flange was so bad on new headers that it required stacking two gaskets, I would have sent them back. I put shorties on the Bronco back in the mid 90’s and don’t recall seeing equal length headers back then. There are definitely none available now unless you can make Mustang headers fit.


I went with Pacesetter based on recommendations in the many threads about headers. The number #1 tube was up against the engine mount bracket. I swapped out the bracket with another one - problem solved. As you can see I cannot tell you any more than how they fit.

 

You got an under shot of the collector/starter relation looking forward by any chance?

Nice looking packaging for sure.

 

Static compression is not the key factor, my Cadillac Fleetwood is rated at 10.4:1 static and runs 87 on the factory PCM tune. 5.7 LT1, just in case curious.

Fair amount of 10.25s in the yards I see, probably easier to just swap entire axles to gain 4.10:1 gears due to cost of the kit and gears. I would regear both for that weight, but that is me.

I did MAF on my '88 302 years ago, which is basically a 302HO now due to cam and assorted bolt ons. Probably would not now as you can tune the EEC-IV as needed with a Quarterhorse chip. EFIDynoTuning tons of info there. Yes, you can even tune the 4.9 speed density ECUs.

 

Not today but maybe tomorrow I’ll be able to stop by the body shop.

 

It was the second set. After I stacked the gaskets, they were fine, for many years. I was getting ready for a show-n-go so sending them back a 3rd time wasn't an option.

I put the Hooker equal length shorties on mine in the late 90's and pulled them off in early 2000's to hang a set Heddman long tubes on it. I guess it's been a while since I've shopped around for sbf truck headers.