Full Bulletproof
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,830
Likes: 3,115
From: Jersey Shore
Not the direction I was going. I think the 20mm design is stronger than the 18mm, but they still move. If International reinforced the heads as they did with the 6.4L, it would have been better yet. But it would take a lot of reinforcement to overcome the wide distance between the bolts. Distance matters with deflection.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,427
Likes: 939
From: Fort Worth, TX
I wonder if the Bullydog heads he sells have been reinforced in the weak areas, like Jack mentioned earlier about the KDD Icon heads.
Jack, in your highly valued, educated opinion, if one were looking to do the absolute best job they could at mitigating HG failure, what would be your recommendation for heads? O-ringed yes, but would seasoned, commonized heads be better than a new set of aftermarket ones with added support?
Jack, in your highly valued, educated opinion, if one were looking to do the absolute best job they could at mitigating HG failure, what would be your recommendation for heads? O-ringed yes, but would seasoned, commonized heads be better than a new set of aftermarket ones with added support?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,491
Likes: 295
From: Fresno, CA
Maybe someday I'll try out a good tuner. For now this truck is my daily driver and tow machine so I'd rather not jack with it. Power is ok, would love to have more but it more than meets my needs in stock configuration. My dirt bikes are there to quench the need for speed!
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,830
Likes: 3,115
From: Jersey Shore
I wonder if the Bullydog heads he sells have been reinforced in the weak areas, like Jack mentioned earlier about the KDD Icon heads.
Jack, in your highly valued, educated opinion, if one were looking to do the absolute best job they could at mitigating HG failure, what would be your recommendation for heads? O-ringed yes, but would seasoned, commonized heads be better than a new set of aftermarket ones with added support?
Jack, in your highly valued, educated opinion, if one were looking to do the absolute best job they could at mitigating HG failure, what would be your recommendation for heads? O-ringed yes, but would seasoned, commonized heads be better than a new set of aftermarket ones with added support?
Since I don't feel the need to use a tune, I'm expecting to be OK with the heads I have without o-rings. Having pulled the engine out and redoing it, I'm not intimidated if I had to do heads or another engine build. If I were replacing heads, I'd pull the engine and do it on the stand. (I hate opening up an engine outside). So my perspective is a little different.
From my career Chis, I'm always skeptical of the aftermarket. I think KDD has done all the right things with their ICON heads, but I'm nervous that it's an aluminum product in a direct iron replacement. They may be fine, as Jason says, but I need more long-term experience. Yes, they ran them on a chassis dyno; they ran them in the field. But I've watched Ford et al. doing much more dyno and fieldwork for a few years, and still they FU.
There appears there might be some iron heads being cast like them for the aftermarket, but I haven't seen any long-term results. I read some of the reviews of those casting, and I'm not impressed. Some say they are fine, but others talk about flash or other issues they had to correct.
UFC gives a lifetime warranty with their rebuilt heads, seasoned and o-ringed. However, I've seen lately that they do not have the inventory they used to have. Along with the 18 and 20mm heads, they also have a listing for the 20mm service heads I have, but those are usually out of stock.
O-rings seem to do a great job sealing the 18mm and 20mm factory heads under most circumstances. However, if it's an aftermarket casting, you have to trust their supplier to ensure the castings do not come to you with issues. And if the internal casting is like what the 18mm or 20mm heads are. It's easy to make the changes to the 18mm machining and call them 20mm.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,915
Likes: 3,625
Maybe someday I'll try out a good tuner. For now this truck is my daily driver and tow machine so I'd rather not jack with it. Power is ok, would love to have more but it more than meets my needs in stock configuration. My dirt bikes are there to quench the need for speed!
After 5 years of ownership, and all warranty coverage expired, I knew the risks and took a chance. I know a number of the "high-horsepower" crowd and took as many precautions as we knew to take back then, with the exception of having the heads o-ringed. One reason why I stayed with stock injectors. Lots of people took things a lot further than I did.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,427
Likes: 939
From: Fort Worth, TX
For me, there are so many variables if in that position. I was lucky that my heads were the 20mm service heads that Ford offered as a service repair. Maybe those are what Ford sells today. But I'm in a position where cleaning them for an inspection, including doing a dye check, was easy. So many people have to go through the expense of sending them to a shop and spend money to find out where they are. Rather than spending even more money, buying heads is easier.
Since I don't feel the need to use a tune, I'm expecting to be OK with the heads I have without o-rings. Having pulled the engine out and redoing it, I'm not intimidated if I had to do heads or another engine build. If I were replacing heads, I'd pull the engine and do it on the stand. (I hate opening up an engine outside). So my perspective is a little different.
From my career Chis, I'm always skeptical of the aftermarket. I think KDD has done all the right things with their ICON heads, but I'm nervous that it's an aluminum product in a direct iron replacement. They may be fine, as Jason says, but I need more long-term experience. Yes, they ran them on a chassis dyno; they ran them in the field. But I've watched Ford et al. doing much more dyno and fieldwork for a few years, and still they FU.
There appears there might be some iron heads being cast like them for the aftermarket, but I haven't seen any long-term results. I read some of the reviews of those casting, and I'm not impressed. Some say they are fine, but others talk about flash or other issues they had to correct.
UFC gives a lifetime warranty with their rebuilt heads, seasoned and o-ringed. However, I've seen lately that they do not have the inventory they used to have. Along with the 18 and 20mm heads, they also have a listing for the 20mm service heads I have, but those are usually out of stock.
O-rings seem to do a great job sealing the 18mm and 20mm factory heads under most circumstances. However, if it's an aftermarket casting, you have to trust their supplier to ensure the castings do not come to you with issues. And if the internal casting is like what the 18mm or 20mm heads are. It's easy to make the changes to the 18mm machining and call them 20mm.
Since I don't feel the need to use a tune, I'm expecting to be OK with the heads I have without o-rings. Having pulled the engine out and redoing it, I'm not intimidated if I had to do heads or another engine build. If I were replacing heads, I'd pull the engine and do it on the stand. (I hate opening up an engine outside). So my perspective is a little different.
From my career Chis, I'm always skeptical of the aftermarket. I think KDD has done all the right things with their ICON heads, but I'm nervous that it's an aluminum product in a direct iron replacement. They may be fine, as Jason says, but I need more long-term experience. Yes, they ran them on a chassis dyno; they ran them in the field. But I've watched Ford et al. doing much more dyno and fieldwork for a few years, and still they FU.
There appears there might be some iron heads being cast like them for the aftermarket, but I haven't seen any long-term results. I read some of the reviews of those casting, and I'm not impressed. Some say they are fine, but others talk about flash or other issues they had to correct.
UFC gives a lifetime warranty with their rebuilt heads, seasoned and o-ringed. However, I've seen lately that they do not have the inventory they used to have. Along with the 18 and 20mm heads, they also have a listing for the 20mm service heads I have, but those are usually out of stock.
O-rings seem to do a great job sealing the 18mm and 20mm factory heads under most circumstances. However, if it's an aftermarket casting, you have to trust their supplier to ensure the castings do not come to you with issues. And if the internal casting is like what the 18mm or 20mm heads are. It's easy to make the changes to the 18mm machining and call them 20mm.
UFC is probably the direction I'm heading if they have what I need when the time comes. I am also keeping stock tuning, though I want an early one that doesn't infer the EBP, has more power, and hopefully better fuel economy. Not a big fan of aluminum mostly because I worry about stripping threaded holes, or the higher risk involved in removing a broken exhaust manifold stud. I also have a healthy distrust of aftermarket. You never really know where the castings are coming from. All KDD says about the Icon castings is that they aren't made in China. I will say, however, in perusing their 6.0 Icon heads page, it appears they are using a 6.4 casting for the 6.0 heads. If they ever make them in cast iron I might bite on that.
I was looking on your youtube channel for the video you made about the evolution of Ford's 6.0 heads, and the differences between injector hold downs, rocker arms, etc, but couldn't find it. I am wondering what additional costs would be incurred moving up to the 20mm heads. I am also now wondering what's special about the 20mm service heads.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,830
Likes: 3,115
From: Jersey Shore
I agree with that, Chris. If they were iron and I needed heads, I'd jump.
One of my least viewed videos. Maybe people don't like Bon Jovi. But I pick songs for the topic. Bon Jovi - Living on a prayer.
One of my least viewed videos. Maybe people don't like Bon Jovi. But I pick songs for the topic. Bon Jovi - Living on a prayer.
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,830
Likes: 3,115
From: Jersey Shore
Mid 2006 Ford announced changes to the engine to commonized for the upcoming 6.4lL. A 20mm dowel is used with the communized engine, rather than an 18mm dowel.
I would suggest watching my video.
I would suggest watching my video.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,427
Likes: 939
From: Fort Worth, TX
I've spent the last few hours looking into converting my 03 to 20mm heads. Talk about an effort in futility. Here's what I've found so far for required parts changes:
-rocker boxes
-rocker box bolts
-rocker arms
-injector hold downs
-oil rails which includes passengers side valve cover, stand pipes, and rewiring harness for ICP
Not sure if the newer stand pipes are compatible with the older style oil lines. I'm guessing not.
-rocker boxes
-rocker box bolts
-rocker arms
-injector hold downs
-oil rails which includes passengers side valve cover, stand pipes, and rewiring harness for ICP
Not sure if the newer stand pipes are compatible with the older style oil lines. I'm guessing not.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,830
Likes: 3,115
From: Jersey Shore
It's a PITA unless you have the "head and rocker box service kit" for the '03s. The later trucks are not so bad, but the injector clamp versions have to go for where the threads are drilled at. That has screwed up rebuliders like UFC when the get the 2003 20mm "service" heads thinking they are the 2006.5 to 2007 heads.
With an '03, it's just easier to use 18mm O-ringed heads.
With an '03, it's just easier to use 18mm O-ringed heads.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,615
Likes: 879
Maybe someday I'll try out a good tuner. For now this truck is my daily driver and tow machine so I'd rather not jack with it. Power is ok, would love to have more but it more than meets my needs in stock configuration. My dirt bikes are there to quench the need for speed!
I agree 100% with this statement.
I did hot rod mine for a little while, but in the end the tow tune remains forever. I spent way too much money and time yanking this engine out and building it for longevity, to destroy it because I now can have 600HP with the help of a tune.....not worth it.
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tesmith66
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
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