Starter Replacement - Should I ??
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 856
Likes: 63
From: Los Angeles/Ventura, CA
Starter Replacement - Should I ??
I recently cleaned up and reinstalled my (possibly original) Mitsubishi M008T50072 starter when installing the Strictly Diesel dipstick adapter. As part of that process I charged both batteries for at least 12 hours - bringing both batteries back up to “100%” as indicated by my charger. I didn’t meter them but I expect they would hold a full (13V?) charge.
I have since driven the truck on three or four separate occasions. In each instance, my initial attempt to start the truck resulted in the starter reacting as if the batteries were almost dead - the starter seemed to pulse every two seconds (instead of multiple times per second) but never seemed to have the power to start the motor. After turning the key off and then back to the on position - letting the key sit in the on position for 45 or so seconds (for the batteries to no longer having a load due to the glow plugs and fuel pump) the starter engaged at full speed - thereby starting the truck.
I don't want to throw money at a new starter if it’s not necessary but would do so if this seems like a starter problem. Given the moving parts here (in particular oil pressure to fire the injectors) I don’t want to assume a starter problem.
I’d welcome thoughts on whether what I’m experiencing sounds like a failing starter or something else.
I have since driven the truck on three or four separate occasions. In each instance, my initial attempt to start the truck resulted in the starter reacting as if the batteries were almost dead - the starter seemed to pulse every two seconds (instead of multiple times per second) but never seemed to have the power to start the motor. After turning the key off and then back to the on position - letting the key sit in the on position for 45 or so seconds (for the batteries to no longer having a load due to the glow plugs and fuel pump) the starter engaged at full speed - thereby starting the truck.
I don't want to throw money at a new starter if it’s not necessary but would do so if this seems like a starter problem. Given the moving parts here (in particular oil pressure to fire the injectors) I don’t want to assume a starter problem.
I’d welcome thoughts on whether what I’m experiencing sounds like a failing starter or something else.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 785
Likes: 150
You need some confirmation about the state of your batteries. Depending on what kind of charger you have, it may have brought the batteries up to a full charge, but they bled off voltage and were not at 100%, or maybe even remotely close when you tried to start the truck.
More Turbo
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 731
Likes: 15
From: Arizona
You need some confirmation about the state of your batteries. Depending on what kind of charger you have, it may have brought the batteries up to a full charge, but they bled off voltage and were not at 100%, or maybe even remotely close when you tried to start the truck.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Los Angeles/Ventura, CA
I just metered the batteries in the truck (connected) and they metered 12.72V. The Costco batteries were installed in April of 2020. I have a friend that may bring by a load tester so I suppose I can test that as well.
I didn’t think batteries were an issue because the starter works at full speed the second time I try to start the truck. If batteries are an issue, I would have thought the result would be consistently non-functioning - both the first and second time I try to start the truck.
I didn’t think batteries were an issue because the starter works at full speed the second time I try to start the truck. If batteries are an issue, I would have thought the result would be consistently non-functioning - both the first and second time I try to start the truck.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,332
Likes: 442
From: Eastern Washington
Was there an issue before R&R?
Double check all electrical connections, a loose/poor battery/starter connection can cause issues.
Isolate the batteries and confirm balanced voltage. You can read 12.7 (which is pretty high) with them connected and still have one at 11v. I like to put an electrical load on the battery for a short period after charging/running to burn off any 'surface charge' for a voltage check.
If your friend has a carbon pile load tester that does the same thing.
A weak starter can present the issues your experiencing.
If it does come down to replacing the starter, research upgrades. I had a brand new Motorcraft replacement and I put in a DB Electric (it was tight, had to tweak the crossmember) and it has been great. It spins so fast it's startling. Scared me a bit first time. I think it's fallen out of favor and theres maybe a better replacement option now.
Double check all electrical connections, a loose/poor battery/starter connection can cause issues.
Isolate the batteries and confirm balanced voltage. You can read 12.7 (which is pretty high) with them connected and still have one at 11v. I like to put an electrical load on the battery for a short period after charging/running to burn off any 'surface charge' for a voltage check.
If your friend has a carbon pile load tester that does the same thing.
A weak starter can present the issues your experiencing.
If it does come down to replacing the starter, research upgrades. I had a brand new Motorcraft replacement and I put in a DB Electric (it was tight, had to tweak the crossmember) and it has been great. It spins so fast it's startling. Scared me a bit first time. I think it's fallen out of favor and theres maybe a better replacement option now.
Super Moderator
Joined: Dec 2011
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my initial attempt to start the truck resulted in the starter reacting as if the batteries were almost dead - the starter seemed to pulse every two seconds (instead of multiple times per second) but never seemed to have the power to start the motor. After turning the key off and then back to the on position - letting the key sit in the on position for 45 or so seconds (for the batteries to no longer having a load due to the glow plugs and fuel pump) the starter engaged at full speed - thereby starting the truck.
I didn’t think batteries were an issue because the starter works at full speed the second time I try to start the truck. If batteries are an issue, I would have thought the result would be consistently non-functioning - both the first and second time I try to start the truck.
What is the CCA rating of the Costco batteries?
What is the voltage rating of each battery individually? Measure individually, since the batteries are paralleled, and the voltage of a good battery can compensate for (and thus mask) the voltage of a bad battery.
Once you load test the batteries (again, individually), you may have a better idea of your battery's capacity to do work (deliver current), not just potential (voltage).
I can take two 6 volt flashlight batteries and hook them up in series to get 12.72 volts, which could potentially run the starter. But the combined flashlight batteries will not have the cranking amp capacity to drive the starter to turn over the engine.
If your starter works at full speed once all other electrical loads have been relieved from your current batteries... then are your batteries delivering enough current?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Los Angeles/Ventura, CA
Prior to reinstalling the starter, I cleaned all connections with sand paper and/or a wire brush. I feel they were clean and all connections tight.
I will isolate and test in the morning. In fact the batteries are under warranty so perhaps I’ll just head over to Costco and switch them out.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 856
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From: Los Angeles/Ventura, CA
850CCA (the AGM batteries are 750CCA)
Is this it or is the starter failing and just needs a bit of a push (the initial key crank) to get going?
Or, could it be something completely different. As an example, is the check ball in my pump not sealing and I need the second effort to have the LPOP and HPOP push more oil through to fire the injectors?
An earlier reply suggested I could get the starter “tested” which seems like a good idea. I didn’t know that could be done.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,332
Likes: 442
From: Eastern Washington
Pretty much nothing will cause weird cranking other than voltage or starter issues. Other issues just cause no start, not no or slow crank.
Make sure your batteries are in good condition and keep chasing starter issues.
Make sure your batteries are in good condition and keep chasing starter issues.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 27,353
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From: Lake Hartwell, GA
Gremlins strike again...
I am leaning toward a CCA/battery issue as well, but only have suspicions that is where the gremlin has decided to take up residence.
As you are removing or inspecting these components, check and clean the terminals and connections very well. Be sure to do the same to the two major grounds on the bottom of the engine block toward the radiator.
Be confident about the signal and power wire on the starter. Make sure the transmission case mounting surface is clean as well as the holes for the bolts.
There are only two starters I would recommend and they are both $300+ dollars. So, please be sure that is what is required before taking that leap.
I am leaning toward a CCA/battery issue as well, but only have suspicions that is where the gremlin has decided to take up residence.
As you are removing or inspecting these components, check and clean the terminals and connections very well. Be sure to do the same to the two major grounds on the bottom of the engine block toward the radiator.
Be confident about the signal and power wire on the starter. Make sure the transmission case mounting surface is clean as well as the holes for the bolts.
There are only two starters I would recommend and they are both $300+ dollars. So, please be sure that is what is required before taking that leap.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Are you 100% confident that the charging system is keeping up with demand? You can have a couple of new batteries, such as in your case, read at 50% a very short time after installation simply due to a poor connection somewhere. Could be corrosion in the alternator plug, grounds that are less than perfect due to age of the vehicle, anything.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: May 2020
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From: Langley B.C. Canada
I had a slow crank issue where the longer I held the key the quicker the starter would turn. That turned out to be the starter.
If the batteries are on Costco Warranty, eliminate that part of the equation and get fresh new batteries.
Win-Win.
Check your grounds as Sous has suggested.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,782
Likes: 2,142
From: N.GA Mountains
Glow plugs stay on waaaaaay longer than fuel pump.
The best starter is a real Denso IMHO. It’s way more powerful than the other options and easily DIY rebuildable in the distant future when it needs something. The chinesey knock offs like db electric sells are disposable garbage.
The best starter is a real Denso IMHO. It’s way more powerful than the other options and easily DIY rebuildable in the distant future when it needs something. The chinesey knock offs like db electric sells are disposable garbage.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 856
Likes: 63
From: Los Angeles/Ventura, CA
As you are removing or inspecting these components, check and clean the terminals and connections very well. Be sure to do the same to the two major grounds on the bottom of the engine block toward the radiator.
Be confident about the signal and power wire on the starter. Make sure the transmission case mounting surface is clean as well as the holes for the bolts.
Be confident about the signal and power wire on the starter. Make sure the transmission case mounting surface is clean as well as the holes for the bolts.
Didn’t think about the ground wires. Can someone please post a picture Of the ground locations noted above.
My truck often sits for extended periods - has anyone used AGM batteries? The Costco AGM batteries have 750CCA. Is that enough or should I stick with the standard batteries that have 850CCA?