I mentioned something about Butter Classics in another thread and and was asked to tell more, so rather than hijack that thread it's in a new one.

Butter Classics is a classic vehicle dealer in Idaho with a pretty good presence. Their prices are not cheap, but they appear to really go through a vehicle and tell you everything about it, and they have some very happy customers on Instagram. My experience, however, was not positive.

I wanted a dentside on their site that had some great photos and video, looked like it needed some work but not much, paint was great. Got in touch, was told there was a ton of interest and people ahead of me, but they'd keep me in mind for something coming in the next few days. Great! Nice communication, liked how they interacted.

He got in touch with a 76 F-150 4wd with 79 hood (my preference), new brakes/steering/overhaul/Sniper EFI/etc and described as 'everything gone through' and 'paint needs some work.' Not cheap, but after a lot of effort on another project, I was looking for reliable and mostly done. I said I wanted pay a mechanic to check it, he said it hadn't been checked by a mechanic yet so he'd pay and I could talk to the mechanic myself - I foolishly agreed. Call the mechanic, "in great shape for a 76, clearly been upgraded in most every thing, no evidence of rust at all." I specifically asked about the bed, having a parts truck with a completely shot bed, and was told "Nope, no rust or holes other than where a 5th wheel had been put in." Great! I wire the money and pay for delivery.

Truck arrives, and here are the problems (keep in mind that it must pass inspection within 30 days in TX):

1. Entirely wrong gauge cluster, so even turn signals weren't working - but the left turn signal wiring was broken anyway
3. No horn button, no horn itself.
4. Wipers entirely non-functional
5. Parking brake non-functional (on a manual)
6. Paint is actually latex house paint on top of a few gallons of bondo with very clear damage under the paint
7. Bed was completely rusted through in many areas
8. Aftermarket stereo was shorting out and making the truck die on occasion
9. Steering rag joint was apparently original and almost completely gone
10. One front hub was seized, another wobbly
11. Gas tank had a visible drip and a bad sender

The list goes on and on. I contacted the guy, was told he hadn't actually looked at it himself, it actually was a consignment from another state. I did some digging and had a friend call the mechanic - he wasn't a mechanic.

Butter Classics offered to refund my shipping costs, saying they weren't making enough money on it and would take a loss if they paid for repair. So, I contacted the dealership he was working through and got a little further. Given how hard it had been to find a 76 4wd, let alone one that already had the hood and EFI, I eventually took a deal to keep the truck.

Later, I finally get the title and it's a REBUILT title. Illegal / fraudulent, as that wasn't disclosed at any point.


In closing, Butter Classics may have some happy customers, but they certainly don't mind ripping people off through fraudulent practices and flat-out lies. Avoid them at all costs.

 

Places like that exist unfortunately, especially in today's classic market. Why I would always be hesitant to buy a vehicle I didn't inspect personally. Hell I inspected the 77 I bought twice, and still missed some things. It's easy to do when the heart gets ahead of the brain.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-ccr_05-a.html any relation to this clown? Sure sounds it.

 

Perfectly put.

 

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Not that it helps but you can be assured you are not alone.

Some food for thought for anyone else looking to buy through a specialty classic vehicle dealer:

• Never trust the description to be complete, inclusive, or accurate. Most of the time the person writing it has no clue about the vehicle nor are they qualified to assess it for an accurate description.
• They are EXPERTS at marketing, photography, and writing vague but attractive descriptions (that won't incriminate them after a sell) which creates a smokescreen that gives buyers with rose colored glasses enough confidence to not take the time to fully vet and ask a lot of questions that aren't spelled out in description. Don't assume anything including their definition of quality or runs-good is the same as yours.
• Putting your own eyes on the vehicle is always recommended. If you will incur more than say $500 in travel, you still need to vet the vehicle thoroughly or have it vetted before making the trip so your time and money are not wasted. Lets say a vehicle is $15-$20k, check out pretty good and will cost $1500 in travel expenses to go see it, but that seems like a lot of money so the trip is cancelled and take the chance buying sight unseen. Vehicle arrives and its a turd. That $1500 is now a drop in the bucket. Quality of paint can only be determined by seeing in person IMO. Photographs can hide so many defects. We all know paintwork is obscenely expensive. If your goal is to pay up so you don't have to incur an expensive repaint, you have to be sure you'll be happy. People are good at camouflaging rust repair and photos often aren't nearly conclusive enough unless one is very skilled at coverup detection and that's assuming high res photos are available in key areas.
• Never trust "their" mechanic's assessment. Obvious conflict of interest.
• A vehicle that is consigned by a 3rd party through a specialty dealer is high risk and should be given the highest scrutiny.
• Sometimes there is a reason for what seems to be a nice vehicle ending up at one of these dealers. I've experienced it so many times while vetting online car listings for people. This is because the car has so many issues that if it were advertised locally where buyers would come in person, it wouldn't sell for a fraction of asking price. Good vehicles that haven't been butchered and hacked sell themselves with no need to consign through a dealer that takes 30%. "Especially" something that's hot and trending like our dentsides.

 

When it comes to buying something that can be expensive as a classic car online, "Caveat emptor" underlined and in capital letters applies!
You can look at all the videos or pictures you want but there's one thing that doesn't change. These pictures and videos only show what the seller (or poster) wants you to see, period! What I think is more important is what they don't show.
Deceptive sellers are masters at making pictures of a turd-mobile look very attractive and their descriptions make it sound even better. The really practiced ones can word adds so they sound very attractive but really don't say enough that they could be (legally) accused of anything dishonest.

 

I got screwed a bit when I bought my '73 Explorer. It was offered by a broker in Fort Lauderdale (I live northeast of Fort Worth). I bought it based on internet photos and a brief conversation with the broker on the telephone. I really should have flown down there and inspected it before I laid my money down. It needs a lot more work than they let on. Still, there's nothing horrible wrong mechanically, there were only 2 previous owners, it has not been hacked up or modified, it has never been wrecked, most of the paint is even original, and there's not a spec of rot in the body. The engine is original and solid, and burns no oil. The transmission shifts perfectly. But I sure would have liked to have known that the brakes were completely inoperative, the A/C didn't work, the audio system was crap, the steering linkage was toast, the carburetor had been messed with, the new-looking tires were 8 years old and dry-rotted, and so forth.

As far as false claims go, I probably had some grounds for a lawsuit. The seller said the truck ran and drove great. Impossible. The brakes were inoperative, and the steering was terrifying even at low speed. Lawsuits are messy and expensive. Better to just move on and fix my truck up properly.

Lesson learned. Next time, go see it in person.

 

I bought a used car from a car lot in Las Vegas two years ago.
The pictures looked nice, inside and out. The salesman claimed that it was very clean.
They were asking top dollar for it.
I told him that it was too far for me to drive, get there and see that the car wasn't really as nice as he claimed.
He sent me 4 videos where he walked around the car and showed everything in great detail, both inside and out..
So I drove the 275 miles, drove the car around the block, paid him, loaded it on the trailer and headed back home.
So far its been a great car. I really appreciated the videos that he made and sent me.
It would be really tough for me to buy a vehicle that I didn't get to see in person first.

 

This story is typical of flippers. I would avoid all of them like the plague you don't need them there are better ways to buy. find what you want anywhere on craigslist then have a forum member or professional inspector look at it for you if checking it out yourself isn't an option.

Living in a rust free area and since I'm always looking for a steal I see midwest flippers buy rigs I've looked at often and local flippers buy them all the time. when I see their ads pop up I don't even think it's the same rig I saw with my own eyes. just go around them and save a lot of money and grief.

 

Paying a local shop $100-200 to quickly check the major systems and verify that the vehicle is as advertised is pretty easy to arrange. Well worth it.

 

A couple of years ago when trying to replace a car a light pole fell on, I ask detailed questions of at least 8 to 10 dealers about the cars they were offering. All were perfect, according to them, especially one from a big dealer over 100 miles away.

I grabbed my car trailer and the old Dodge truck, and headed out to all of them at different times. All lied like dogs, and I bought none of them. All but a few were large franchise dealers.

I had several walk around the car with me on the phone asking for every flaw, and telling them places to check for sun damage, ect. Bunch of d--n liars. One car they claimed had no scratches, had obvious huge scratches on the rear quarter and trunk where what looked like a great dane had been jumping on it.

I used to own a used car lot, and never lied to people about what I sold. I encouraged every customer to have the vehicle checked by someone of their choosing, and if they found anything wrong I had missed, let me know.

I expect others to be the same way, but they are not.

 

Good to know about Butters. I was fairly lucky with my F250...bought sight unseen and took a risk. It has some issues for sure, and I'm going to be hashing them out for awhile. But for what I was looking for, I'm ok with it so far. So basically, I feel for you on this one. It's understandable you took a chance. Some of us do.

As far as Butters. I've seen their ads far and wide on Ebay. And in the fine print, it usually clarifies they are a consignment shop. It says something like "this vehicle is NOT at our location in Idaho". Which gives a clear indication that they don't really know it's condition. That, and the fact that the F250 I was looking at was set amid palm trees. I figured it wasn't Idaho. I actually didn't necessarily think that is a terrible thing (as long as you know the deal). Because they really are just providing an outlet for private sellers. Why those folks don't just list themselves on Ebay is beyond me. I'm pretty sure going consignment doesn't shift liability from a private seller to a dealer.

But yeah, you can be the BIGGEST dealer in the world if you're selling consignment. I honestly can't think of a truck I've seen on dealer listings on Ebay in the last 6 months that I would pay the money requested for (if I had the money!). It seems like a good chunk of them have been hit with a quick color change paint job (as opposed to full go-over, including engine bay and cab).

 

I HEAR you. I'm still like this. A TOTAL sucker who actually believes what people tell him. Ah well. You will live longer and have less guilt!

 

Keep in mind Washington and Idaho are using a lot of salt these days. if anyone is driving them in the winter beware . eastern WA and ID used to be great places to watch but now I'm careful.

Just skip the flippers and beat them to the rig, watch craigslist and move fast if you see something interesting.