Thanks for the additional guidance. I have a set of snap ring pliers for circlips and the round tips were a bit of a challenge to use on these older snap rings but I managed.

Ross, thats a great suggestion on the cluster gear assembly installation. I've got some 3/4 bar stock in my scrap pile that should work well.

Wellcraft, concerning the cluster gear clearance, I neglected to check it before disassembly. How and where should this be checked and what are the clearance specifications I should shoot for? Secondly, the one end of the slider blocks was completely chewed off. Any thoughts what would cause this? Maybe the excessive end play in the main shaft?

Ron

 

Looking at the transmission case, I noticed the surface the thrust washer is against is pretty mangled. Is this something I can put a shim against to give the thrust washer something a little cleaner to work against or is there another way to address this?

 

Also noticed the intermediate gear is sleeved and the sleeve protrudes 0.015” from the face of the gear. Is this normal or did someone resleeve it and not drive the sleeve in all the way?

 

If you are replacing the cluster gear shaft you can use the old shaft as a dummie shaft. You’ll have to shorten it to get it in the case. If you order a small parts kit the thrust washers should be in it. I believe the clearance on the cluster gear is .004- .018 and that is measured between the case and thrust washer with lateral movement of the cluster gear. Excess end play over many years will wear out the slider blocks. There are two different size blocks one is thin and the other is wider approximately 3/8-1/2” wide, it looks like you have the wider one. I’m sure Van Pelts book will answer most questions and if not we can help.

 

That wear on the thrust face is not unusual, but measuring the end play will tell you if it's too bad. The worst case is when the thrust washer's tang is able to come out of the hole and the thrust washer spins, the tang will really mess up the thrust face. Was the tang broken off or worn off on yours? If the wear is too bad the only fix is a new or better case, or a machining process that is $$. Mine was not good, but I cleaned up the face very thoroughly and put some Loctite bearing retainer on the face, put a new thrust washer on it while wet, and put in the cluster gear to put the thrust washer square. I was able to get it in spec and it has held up very well. Other folks have used JB Weld to do similar, but the key is to get the thrust washer sitting square and with correct clearance. If you are going to sink a lot of money into the trans, best to find a better case.

Wellcraft, as far as I know there is only one size of strut ( what you're calling a "block") in the flathead era trans. Be sure to check the new struts for smooth movement when installed, I found some of VanPelt's replacements had sharp corners that would hang up a little.

I think that bushing should be flush on the intermediate gear.

 

Is the bushings flush with the other side of the gear? With the gear assembled on the shaft you should have .003 - .011 lateral clearance. It looks as though someone rebushed the gear. Some gears had bushings and some do not, I have both here in my shop and there is no difference in the operation of the transmission.

 

Ross is correct re the strut/block in the flathead era, later on borg Warner changed to a thinner strut/block assembly. Either one will work. I have never found anyone that could tell me why it was changed.

 

Wellcraft- the bushing is recessed on the other side so someone rebushed it at some point and didn’t insert it all the way.

i also took a look at the thrust washers. I’ve attached images of the fronts and backs of these. They're pretty mangled and need to be replaced. It looks like there was too much play and the front thrust washer worked loose and rattled so the hole is no longer three-lobed.





This is turning into quite an education! I appreciate everyone’s patience with me and your great responses to what are probably obvious questions to everyone on the forum.

 

An update:
I've got the transmsission torn apart, triaged and developed a list of parts I need to order from VanPelts. I discovered the reverse gear idler was missing a tooth so that will need to be replaced. Someone in the past also tried to drive the countershaft out without removing the cross pin and mangled that pretty good. So, heres a listing of what I'm ordering for what its worth

• Synchro springs and insert kit (two springs and three inserts)
• Reverse idler gear
• Transmission gasket set
• Clutch fork/shaft pin
• Front bearing retainer oil seal
• Top shift lever leather seal
• Bronze synchro ring (2)
• Countershaft retention cross-lock pin
• Small parts kit (thrust washers, new snap rings)

I didnt have to order bushings for the clutch fork shaft since I was able to turn some bronze bushings from stock I have. They've already been inserted into the transmission case and reamed them for running fit to the shaft

I also had a great chat with Mac at VanPelts- what a wealth of knowledge. I had a big question about the wear on second gear face and the protuding bushing. This is not normal but he mentioned I should also inspect the end of the spiral spline on the mainshaft. Sure enough, it was quite worn and had a pretty signifcant burrr turned on it.


Apparently, if I understood correctly,. Mac mentioned Ford eliminated a pretty substantial washer (81A-7071) that was between the spline end and the second gear so this wear occurrs and causes second gear to slip out in use. These shafts are tough to find in good shape so we discussed options and I mentioned turning back the damage on my lathe and putting in a spacer washer. Since I have a lathe, Mac said the splines could be machined back to duplicate the earlier mainshaft spline length that accomodates the older washer. The interior of the washer is keyed to prevent it from spinning so a 1/8" hole would also need to be drilled into the mainshaft just in front of the splines for an anti-spin pin for the new washer.

Now I wait for the parts to arrive....

 

What shape is your cluster gear shaft in, you will need a rear main shaft seal and two shift shaft seals. Looking at the wear on your parts I would guess it has been run low on gear lube.

 

Cluster gear shaft is in good shape. Surprisingly, no signifcant wear that I can see. Since there are indications that somebody's been in there before, it may have been replaced.

I previously ordered and replaced the rear seal with a new one.

As far as the shift shaft seals, I didn't notice these in my top loader transmission. Where are they located?

Ron

 

Shifter shaft seals are on side-loaders only.

I'd be surprised if turning the mainshaft on your lathe will be easy. Henry used some great steels and hardening processes.

My reverse gear also had a broken tooth. (see pic above) It was clearly caused by a stray cluster gear roller coming between it and the 1st gear. Check your 1st gear for any signs.

 

I too had a big concern on the machinability of the shaft and had nightmares of needing to find someone to grind it on their lathe or mount it on my milling machine between centers and use a carbide end mill to slowly remove the spiral spline. After doing a file test on the shaft spiral spline end that I am planning to remove, I was very happy to see it cut. I then did a test setup on my lathe with a carbide tool and it cut quite nicely. I thought for sure the hammering of the tool going from spline to spline would demolish the cutting edge but it didn’t.






I’m going to wait until I get all the parts then assemble everything on the shaft from the snap ring back to determine how much I need to cut for the new washer configuration. Doing this, I should be able to set the required 0.004-0.008” clearance based on how much I cut back on the spiral spline.

Ron

 

Nice lathe, is that a Jet?

 

yup, it’s a little Jet 9x20. It’s not a Southbend or Hardinge but it gets the job done. That four jaw chuck is far from being dynamically balanced but it is workable.