yeah I was thinking they have them as well but I don’t think there’s many of those in the junkyards around here either. Doesn’t matter right now, I’ve got a bracket

 

Once upon a time (when I first got to FTE) , there was a single, magic Cardone part # for a bolt on Sag pump that would go anywhere a Ford Corporate II PS pump would go.

All you had to do is match up/adapt the high pressure line. It was allegedly from the late 70s. I got one of the few before the Cardone number started coming up no longer valid.






The pump is a std 4-hole Sag mount, but has a 3 hole, C-shaped adaptor (not seen in pic & I can't find one either) & uses a Ford diameter shaft & press on pulley.

I looked on Rock the other day & there are several applications listed for 77-79 F series that show Sags, but none of the illustrations show this adaptor on the images & none have reservoirs. (Cans)

 

https://www.polyperformance.com/psc-...-bracket-mb03k

is a much easier to pull off one than the one you mention but its helpful and i found it from your comment so thank you.

This being the relic of a past era you were referring to.

Thats the past. The future is now.

1. The first bracket I posted in this post is the same concept but it doesnt space an otherwise special shaft pump to have proper pulley spacing with a ford pulley on a c2 bracket, but allows you to use a common GM shaft pump with a custom or just appropiate reservoir in a c2 bracket with a pulley that matches your trucks serpentine track.(this is the most application dependant and hardest research part that I cant help sadly with.)
2. The ham can wont work without eating bits of the bracket which weakens and is just less desireable.
3. I do believe the shaft wont be centered at that point anymore in the bracket so a pulley of equal diameter will prob require a belt size change unless you happen to fall into the tensioners good tension range with it equipped and
   • I wouldnt go smaller than the OE pulley but larger wouldnt hurt, but just be aware too large could make steering choppy because of flow change.(see diagram I made below)
   • Pulley math and changes to the flow valve can be done, but that is not amateur adjustments you can blow at best some lines at worse everything the fluid goes in if you are dumb
4. Flow valve and hose union to my understanding is something you will want to buy from an applicable equivalent, so similar powertrain setup with a saginaw like how vans would be.
5. Given a proper PSI and GPM, ditching a large reservoir for a compact design or buying one already installed. SEE the last photo after diagram and explanation of a possible hiccup for at least 4.9 with a high mount pump(and similar scenarios)
6. aAssuming there is not an issue I wasnt able to predict or missed, this all together means a bit of work, probably, for using factory brackets with a GM style saginaw P pump but this would all be upfront with serviceability being extremely cheap and abundant everywhere no question for years to come because of the modular nature and then using the "standard" design of the popular pump. It also may cost somewhere close to brackets or c2 casing with P pump internals(it is a P pump, based on the bushing and offset shaft placement) made by Lees, but I believe its possibly the most secure. A control valve and union fitting can follow you to any pump and as long as you have a magnetic inline filter, it should never be worn out from normal use(metal bits make ouchies) like this:
   
   
   this here is the thing I indicated about maybe necessary, its a remote res AND return nipple(hydroboost) as the pump may run dry if its got a cooling loop and a reservoir far away or with a shallow supply hose run so its not able to keep up. but this wouldnt be necessary in normal trucks, I do not think, but Ive not tried it either.

also for people who want a hopefully easier solution to a maybe issue with pressure lines, as long as you get a matching psi and gpm valve and union they should be adapatable to this hose it looks like with the fittings, so an equivalent metric o ring or inverter flare GM sourced one may work with less headache. mileage would vary

 

also the next ugly unholy and disgusting to its core gen of f150 had one cool thing, the reservoir. they are pretty cute and you can eye the PS Level without opening and if you keep the reservoir clean and use a paint marker on the low and hot fill lines you make your life easier yet as an owner. new, used, or just an idea for anyone.

 

I forgot to include this, but this is a example of why you want clean fluid and no metal bits circulating at high pressure through your steering system and presumably some running dry and some just hot situations. But also a helpful what it is for the fitting/valve said earlier. also someone pls help with the ford PNs

 

Quite a lot to un-pack from your post AG, but yes, that the piece that makes just about any Sag work.

One of these days when I source another van setup, I'm going to pull the above pump & scan that bracket for possible reproduction.

Since the shaft is press-on, there isn't really any alignment issues.

Thanks for the diagrams. I'm going to screen grab that for future reference. Can't tell where it came from, can't read watermark.

 

supermotors which is steve83s archives but he got the diagrams diagrams from Ford service manuals and service data. They are in the shop manuals and such if you know where to look etc. Do you know how to get the f___ (pn in diagram)- __ at all?
Like, you can search a control valve pn... without the prefix youre getting every control valve from ford i think. The prefix of course changes with time and has a year indicator but its hard to just know what the year and numbers etc would be I think

and yes a lot to unpack, but if the TC pump thing pans out, its a hell of a lot better route in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with your pump, but the shaft is a larger diameter and its longer than the saginaw pumps everywhere else pretty much, which limits search from junkyards and only to rebuilders of limited year ford pumps which understandably raises costs and makes it less likely to future proof and also be in stock everywhere. I can go to every auto store in town and guarantee at least buy 5 gm saginaw pumps from them each and prob way more lol
And if anyone wanted pics or measurements I own over 15 probably or so saginaw pumps, 3 or 4 cb pumps and 1 tc(type ii is another name) and then the rest P pumps. I can go punch the reservoir off a p pump and yank the pulley off (i have tool ) and then put three reservoirless, pulley less, pumps in a group photo. Not necessary to my understanding but figured to offer.

The TC is best distinguised as having 3 mounts that run fully front to back in the triangle pattern, having a larger shaft, and having a snap ring with a bearing instead of a bushing. Most commonly used back in the day for high performance engines, hydroboost + remote reservoir(often gm big blocks had this because of low mounting pumps with AC and stuff blocking access), and other manufactures who us saginaw but dont have room for the larger p pump. Jeeps are a common big one there factory. (they use CB too) TC can rev, best of the three for higher flow, higher pressures, and is the lightest pump especially if a aluminum casing one is purchased. There are companies that sell em with a bolt flange to allow bolt on pulleys. CB prob has that too, that would make installation (if my theory was right) easier by a lot and adjusting too. careful of using a N* reservoir, some had a proprietary PS cap that is gm dealer or parts only, 30 dollars from my local dealer years ago. Daylight robbery.

The CB is basically the same design but missing the point of the triangle, so just straight across mounting points, the back cover differs, bushing, and smaller shaft. but it shares a valve and fitting with saginaw p pumps. This pump is what you found in a lot of other car-makes and GM cars like the 3800 engine used it consistently. N* used the TC mostly. In modified built pumps, this pump is the best for cavitation and not heating the fluid as much as other two, but this is extreme racing kind of usage Im referring to.

P pump being offset shaft, two bolts into the rear of the pump , mounting holes in the front of the pump only*for the purposes here), the reservoir usually looks like a dick, and is the most widely known and has numerous variations. Its not a pump to spin fast tho!!! Hydroboost applications would have a second return nipple and the reservoir chosen decides the nature of the pump. The p pump is also the one Lee ps people made into the body of a C2 that bolts in no conflicts, which is nice for simplicity, but pricey.

 

Seen this on one of those sponsored ads that shows up. Somebody came on with a bolt on answer to the saginaw pump. only for the 5.0 and 5.8. Hopefully they will come up with one for the 460.
https://cpaddict.com/89-96-bronco-sa...conoline-type/

 

screw that noise I am looking at the future not the past(p pump) the type II (tc) saginaw pump is the way of the future they just havent realized it yet

At this moment I am investigating the bolt spacing on the pumps used by niche GM divisions that are widely available, mostly aluminum 2 piece cases, and are PARTIALLY SUBMERGED PUMPS LIKE A P PUMP so way quieter than a small TC pump usually is. and dampens the pulses etc. If the spacing is not too far or can be made to work... mein gott.





I got me a really dirty but still in one piece C2 pump to compare without having to take mine off and the 1st 2 are looking like the 2 long spaced holes can line up with 2 on the c2 bracket potentially. the reservoir comes off and it can be made to fit a diff one or a line for a remote. so that isnt a limit. If it can match just 2 spaces, can get really close, or could go the way of a small plate that puts small distance between things and all that OK, it might just be doable with minor work. The calibration and finding the right control valve and the orifice opening would be the next question but im not there yet.

 

what exactly is so great about the tc pump Auroragirl? and what’s wrong with the p pump?

 

it was actually a joke lol meant to be boastful and cocky sounding about it.

but the tc pump if you use the right one stock or aftermarket can flow way more than p puno and does have the ability to spin faster too. Bearing on the end of shaft not a bushing. Also Is dead to rights reliable. And customiZeable. A two piece housing means incredibly simple to overhaul for some one inclined. They also don’t die for some reason when overheated and run low on fluid(not literally but it’s kinda like a 300) the biggest reason I am seeking to see if there is simple fit is to allow people with 300 and any thing with a c2 to enjoy quiet and good ps without paying arm and leg for brackets etx that aren’t going to be abundant forever. The tc pump if I can find one that fits two holes, will ultimately save a LOT of future stuff. Also, it’s size is less than a few pounds in the small bare one but they made aluminum ones cast ones small ones big ones etc. Most can have a reservoir or a remote one. Also control valves and fittings are everywhere online and frankly it looks a lot like a c2 pumps but different enough to need to change things.

p pump is a good pump but it puts out a lot of flow and pressure even when dubbed down but then you’re at the mercy of choppy. I mean they will work safely and fine I just have a good feeling what it will do on mine if I were to utilize one of my used ones because I’m cheap lol

 

A direct bolt in replacement would definitely be sweet, but aside from that p pumps are pretty reliable, can also be had in remote reservoirs, and have plenty of aftermarket fittings for them as well. Furthermore, I prefer their looks. TC pumps are ugly

 

well, the bracket would cover 90% of models of tc made and the pulley would on the front. But that isn’t too important the thing about pumps like p is they are good at gpm while the tc pump is meant to spin faster, put out less gpm, but also have the fine tuned pressure and also increased idle output over p pump when compared equally. So can be helpful if running stuff with it for sure. But I get it. The biggest thing that would help is if Saginaw didn’t have the p pump withthe 3 mounting stops different spaces and also one higher than others.

 

spin faster as in with engine rpm, or smaller pulleys for increased flow? pardon my ignorance

 

at lower rpm the tc has a better output than the p pump which can get choppy at idles especially if the flow was restricted from wear or damage and is felt by steering assist for partial turn, then stop, then continue, then stop. The pulley on p pump if the valve is correct would need to have the output at idle needed meaning a small pulley which also can get to be a limitation in rpm at times. But that’s isn’t a concern here.

the tc pump at higher rpm pista out less than p. But then tc can just go faster in rpm wise with a smaller pulley to match and cover a large range and give a good rpm height. It’s why race cars love it.

but you wouldn’t want to drop a race ready one in my Ford for example. 2wd half ton. Sure e4od and 300 but that’s it ya know. More pressure would be bad for seals and the bypass inside and the flow too high would cavitate, heat up when not doing anything way too much. But someone with 37 inch tires and 4x4 and off roading etc you can definitely utilize that output better