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I bought a 390 core of craigslist and had a local guy rebuild it for me. I should have just bought a crate motor, but since I don't have a time machine...
Anyway, the guy that built the motor doesn't have a shop and I have no real recourse. The problem with the motor is that it makes weird noises and when a friend and I pulled off the intake yesterday we found one of the lifers is shorter than the others and the pushrods have damaged the rocker arms. The builder had used adjustable rocker arms and I would rather go back to the stock non-adjustable type. I don't know anything about engine building, so I have some basic questions:
1. What push rods do I need (i.e. length and are they supposed to have oiling holes for this motor or not)
2. I see some rocker arm assemblies on Jegs that are $240 and on RockAuto I see individual rocker arms, bars, and end caps. Can I buy all those parts that RockAuto has and build the complete assemblies or do I need to buy the complete assemblies like I see listed on Jegs.
Keep in mind I do not have access to another motor locally that I can pull parts from. Thanks for any advice.
Question one lifter shorter than the rest??????? Did you measure the lifters to determine that or is the lifter just lower in the lifter bore than the rest.......indicating a wiped out cam lobe.
Pushrod length would be determined with an adjustable pushrod to set then measure the length and order new ones. Yes there should be a hole for oiling.
My 2cents at this point with questionable build it might be a good idea to start over by taking it apart and inspecting everything and clearances etc.
You dont want to end up with a pile of parts you cant fix due to a major failure.
I got burned when I was 15 like that and had start over. (My first car) still want to go throw all the parts from the engine thru his windows and that was 25 years ago.
We pulled all the lifters out and if you just set thm next to each other on a table, one lifter is visibly shorter by a couple millimeters. I can take a pic tonight a post it. We don't think the cam is bad. My friends says that if there was a bad lobe, we would see some wear on the bottom of the corresponding lifter, which we do not. So far we don't have any evidence of a bad cam. We can inspect the cam through all the holes that the lifters go in and just bump the motor around to get a look. Thanks for the tip on the adjustable push rod. I'll get one of those so we can measure. Any idea about the rocker arm assemblies for this motor? This is what I'm seeing:
Btw, I was thinking about mailing the bad parts to the builder, but I won't even do that. I just hope he doesn't think he sold me a good motor. I was texting him a while back about some issues and he eventually stopped responding. I should have known better, but I thought he was a good guy.
Adjustable rockers on an FE (360, 390, etc.) is quite unusual. Only the 427 came from the factory with adjustable rockers. Are you sure that we are talking about an FE engine?
Assuming the cam is OK, you should be able to source all of the stock valve train parts as new but that won't be cheap. More cost effective to source a good used shaft mounted rocker assembly and pushrods. This can be done via used parts sellers online or over the phone.The lifters should be replaced. If the cam is damaged, you'll need to tear the whole engine down.
It's very unlikely he had 1 lifter different than the others , I'd really look that over.
If it is a wiped cam don't hold that against him. it happens all the time and a roller cam is the only sure prevention.
If the cam is good put new lifters in ( Johnson's ) and measure to see what push rods you need if you want to eliminate the adjustable rockers. if you're lucky a stock set will work if not a custom set is available from Smith Bros or someone like that it's a common part of rebuilding an engine.
Here is what the motor looked like when I got from the builder. I thought the rockers looked cool back then, but now I wonder why he chose to use them. He said the original rockers were "junk" which I assume means that they were not in good enough shape to reuse them. That was the case with many of the parts on the motor. Anyway, to answer some questions, this is an FE 390 and of course it didn't come with adjustable rockers from the factory.
My brother asked a friend that has a 1960's Tbird with a 390 and has rebuilt it himself. He said the one lifter "collapsed." He is an old timer and refers to the lifter as a "tappet." His advice was to just replace the collapsed lifter and see what happens. That makes sense to me, but I will need to replace the push rods and the rocker assemblies anyway because where the push rods meet the rockers, the rockers are deformed. I am guessing this may be because the builder used solid push rods without oiling holes. Does that make sense or am I misinterpreting the cause of the damage? My plan is to get my hands on stock type rocker arm assemblies and the kit that will allow me to measure the correct push rod length so I can order new push rods. And obviously I'll replace the lifter. Here is the rocker arm assemblies I was referring to:
Looking closer at the picture, I'm pretty sure I can't build these just using the parts I found on Rock Auto, so my options are to either buy these or try to source used ones from like flowney was saying. $240 does seem bad though and so easy to just order them.
Here is what the motor looked like when I got from the builder. I thought the rockers looked cool back then, but now I wonder why he chose to use them. He said the original rockers were "junk" which I assume means that they were not in good enough shape to reuse them. That was the case with many of the parts on the motor. Anyway, to answer some questions, this is an FE 390 and of course it didn't come with adjustable rockers from the factory.
My brother asked a friend that has a 1960's Tbird with a 390 and has rebuilt it himself. He said the one lifter "collapsed." He is an old timer and refers to the lifter as a "tappet." His advice was to just replace the collapsed lifter and see what happens. That makes sense to me, but I will need to replace the push rods and the rocker assemblies anyway because where the push rods meet the rockers, the rockers are deformed. I am guessing this may be because the builder used solid push rods without oiling holes. Does that make sense or am I misinterpreting the cause of the damage? My plan is to get my hands on stock type rocker arm assemblies and the kit that will allow me to measure the correct push rod length so I can order new push rods. And obviously I'll replace the lifter. Here is the rocker arm assemblies I was referring to:
I believe hydraulic lifters are the only ones that can collapse and that adjustable rockers have solid lifters. Also the 360 FE has the same rocker arm assemblies. Also there is a specialty rocker arm shaft bolt on each shaft that is stepped to allow oil to pass for lubrication. Make sure you have the mounting bolts for the rocker arm assemblies if you buy a set of used assemblies which btw is the only way I think you can make this happen unless you go to roller rockers..
I believe hydraulic lifters are the only ones that can collapse and that adjustable rockers have solid lifters. Also the 360 FE has the same rocker arm assemblies. Also there is a specialty rocker arm shaft bolt on each shaft that is steeped to allow oil to pass for lubrication. Make sure you have the mounting bolts for the rocker arm assemblies if you buy a set of used assemblies which btw iss the only way I think you can make this happen unless you go to roller rockers..
Here is what the lifters look like. You can let me know if this is hydraulic or solid, since I really don't know the difference. Can you explain more about why getting used assemblies or roller rockers are the only viable options (as opposed to those assemblies I founds on Jegs)? Feel free to dumb it down, I appreciate any help I can get here and I really have no background in this.
The Jegs package looks good and has an attractive price. However, you'll need stock bolts. There are two special bolts in that set that facilitate the oiling which comes up through the cylinder head and past these special bolts (one on each side) through the rocker shaft and then to the rockers before draining back. The lifters are oiled through a completely different circuit.
If all you have is a collapsed lifter, it may be worthwhile to look into keeping the rockers that came with the rebuild unless they come from Speedmaster/ProComp and have needle bearings. You'll need to ask the builder.
Sorry I missed the Jeg's ad. Those will work. Like I and Flowney both mentioned you'll need a set of mounting bolts and their is one specialty bolt on each head that you'll only find used. Plus there is a sheet metal pan that sits under each rocker assembly for oil control. I may have these parts I'll check this afternoon and let you know. Those lifters are hydraulic lifters BTW and may be part of the problem. Can you take a better picture of one of the rockers that were installed on the motor ?
Yes, I'll take some pics tonight when I get home and I'll look at the bolts I have to see if any look like specialty bolts. Also, I'm going to take a close up of the damage on the rockers. Thanks for all the help.
Yes that is a hydraulic lifter and they require a preload within specs, so you'll either need the adjustable rockers or the correct length push rods.
A collapsed lifter is a much different matter than a short one. there are two flat tappet lifters made these days, junk and not so great. the Johnson brand is not so great, like the import junk ones they're sold under many brand names. Howard's Cam lifter are the better ones this I know for sure so that's what I buy.
If you feel a bad lifter is your only problem replace them then measure your pushrod length if you want to lose the Ronco rockers. as problems go this is a pretty mild one.
Found myself awake looking for parts hours before my alarm went off this morning and look what I found on eBay:
I ordered that so now I’ll have the rockers, bolts, and drip trays. Some of the springs are broken so I’ll have to see if I can find new ones. I got home late last night, so didn’t get any pics taken of the short lifter or rockers, but I’ll do it in the morning.
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