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First of all: I feel really, really stupid.
I attempted an engine reinstall back into my truck with a rebuilt transmission and new torque converter from a local shop already in the truck a couple of weeks ago and couldn't get it to go the last 1/2" to mate everything up. I figured something was getting hung up on the angles, so I aborted the mission and pulled everything back out.
Today, I reattempted and tried to mate the engine and the tranny outside of the truck and lift everything back in as a unit. Again - got hung up on the last 1/2"...one side would go in and the other would be 1/2 out and vice-versa.
In a fit of rage I separated everything and tried to fit just the torque converter onto the flex plate. To my surprise, even though the 4 torque converter studs lined up (but not completely through) to the flex plate holes, the pilot (hub) of the torque converter would not seat into the bore of the crank. In measuring everything, the diameter of the bore of the crank was 29mm (1-1/8") diameter but the pilot of the torque convertor was a whopping 35mm (1/38") diameter. That's when the "feeling-stupid" feeling crept in. My son tried to laugh it off but I could tell he was embarrassed for me. Classic square peg into a round hole scenario...was never going to fit.
So where did the shop that supplied me the torque converter go wrong? Is there a converter with the diameter pilot I'm looking for? There isn't a wealth of this particular information on torque converters out there. Have to mention that the TC seated nicely onto the tranny shaft and the stud bosses were a little over an inch behind the edge of the bell housing.
Thanks in advance for ANY assistance you can give!
Geoff
Ford FE 360 and a C6 tranny.
Is the pedestal that the pilot is sitting on protruding too much?
Last edited by UKPR1; Aug 12, 2021 at 05:29 PM.
Reason: Clarifying
The info that I found is a bit confusing but later FE's should have a 1.85 (of in that range) pilot hole in the crank. 1.375 converters are either not for the FE or you would need a bushing to take it down to 1.375. Nothing had a pilot of 1-1/8 from what I can find. The likely scenario is that you have a pilot bushing or part of a pilot bearing in the back of the crank or you are not measuring the right hole. Some of the cranks have a step down from 1.85 to maybe 1-3/8.
If you can, stick a hook tool in the end of the crank and see if there is a gap indicating that there is still a bushing or bearing in there. You might post a question in the FE area. I saw some postings when I did a search that some of the early FE's had a smaller pilot hole. The options there were to either turn the converter down or bore the crank. I don't think any 360 cranks had these. Do you know where your crank came from? Is it the original crank or did it come with a rebuild?
Here are some pictures of the end of a 360 crank. The hole measured about 1-1/8 but if you look carefully there is a bearing out of race still stuck in there. https://www.ford-trucks.com/g/album/811921
The other reading I did indicates that you may not have the right flex plate as well - especially if the t/c isn't fitting well. There are small block, 385, and 300 6 cylinder flex plates for the C6 and it is possible to end up with the wrong one.
GPatrick,
Thanks for your reply. The crank was the crank that came with the original block. I neglected to take measurements of the original TC pilot when I took the tranny in for rebuilding - all I know is that it came back with a "new" TC.
The picture in the link that you sent looks pretty much like my scenario...why would there be a bearing or a race in there? Looks like I need to take come pictures of the back end of the crank shaft... I wonder if there is enough metal on the pilot to turn in down another 5mm...?
There almost has to be a bearing still in the end of the crank. As far as I can tell there was never a 1.125 crank pilot hole. Don't attempt to modify the t/c until you can confirm that there is a race in there. It is easy to pull out a pilot bearing on a manual transmission and get the inner ring and ***** out and the outer ring is left behind. Post some pics. I can't find any 360 crank with anything but 1.375 or 1.85. From what I read 1.85 is most common. Some of the aftermarket cranks are actually drilled for both diameters in a stepped hole.
So given there's something in the crank, it's one or the other, correct? Turn down the pilot on the TC or enlarge the crank (whittle down the remaining race)? If there is enough meat on the TC pilot, I'd much rather go that route...
That race should pull out with a proper tool - perhaps a slide hammer. I wouldn't cut down a perfectly good part for the sake of a bearing ring in the end of the crankshaft. Do some google searches on removing stuck pilot bearings. Ask in the FE section of this site.
The moral of the story - always check the parts you've been given to install or complete a rebuild.
I went by the shop today with the torque converter and they looked at the sticker on it and asked me again what tranny and engine. I told them again, to which they responded "Well that's not the right one!". Correct overall diameter, but the pilot didn't protrude as much and the diameter was bigger. I didn't communicate it properly yesterday, but the crank bore had 2 diameters - the diameter closest to the tranny was almost 2" but the diameter closest to the engine 1/2" into the crank bore was the 1-1/8". I bet you the pilot of this new TC they gave me rests in the outer 2" diameter and isn't meant to penetrate into the inner diameter. Compare this with yesterday's photos of the TC I was trying to cram onto the engine. I'm just glad that I didn't try to force anything and started breaking stuff. Attempt #3 tomorrow if the weather clears up.
Thanks for all of your help, GPatrick!
Glad you got it sorted out and also glad that you didn't just use a bigger wrench to the the trans mounted. Sounds like the crank indeed had the 1.85 pilot. The smaller diameter hole is used in most cases to allow manual transmission shafts room to extend past the pilot bearing or bushing. Does the new t/c fit the flex plate better as well?
As soon as I get home, I'll dangle the engine from the crane and see how things mate up, TAKE PICTURES of the fitment this time, and post them back. I get the feeling that everything will fit perfectly, as the TC pilot can now go as far as it needs to into the crank, which will allow the TC studs to ALL seat through the flex plate, instead of just one out of the 4.
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