As long as its a Ford engine it it Im good with it.

 

Took me a week or so to gather my words, as I didn't want to turn this into an "old vs new" slugfest. There are merits to both, and fixing late model junk every day has made me appreciate the simplicity and reliability of "old school" tech.

I get it. Some of you have spent a LOT of time, planning and money putting your drivetrain of choice into your truck, and I respect that. But please understand there are cheaper, more reliable and more powerful options that were already available, that maybe you weren't aware of. Maybe you had a bad experience with a carbureted vehicle, or your "old school" rebuild didn't do what it was supposed to, instead of learning more about how early engines are still reliably on the road (and drag strips) 50 years later with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, or how early muscle cars made it into the 9 and 10 second brackets with slicks, headers and a cam "swap", you instead decided to downgrade to a less efficient, sensor ridden, plastic and aluminum computer controlled setup for your truck, and that's fine too. You might get slightly better MPG and a maybe a better cold start for your expensive EFI "swap", but you won't be starting (and driving) it with a battery and fresh gas after sitting for 10 years, and you damned sure won't be enjoying sub-100 dollar tune ups, or the ease of carrying a spare set of (cheap) points or ign module and a spare fuel filter on your cross country trips.

Trust, late-model breakdowns are far, far more expensive and technically involved than traditional/basic setups ever will be. On my DD, I'm usually back on the road in about 10 minutes on the rare occasion that I break down, fixed with 3 wrenches and a screwdriver for under 20 dollars in parts that were already in my glove box. No rollback, no laptop, no scan tools, no cell phone. It's freaking nice. 😋

During this build thread, I probably WONT be dropping a gas tank to change a fuel filter or fuel pump, I probably WONT be checking fuel rail pressure at the Schrader valve, I probably WONT be breaking out 5000 dollars worth of snap on scan tools to find out which sensor is not communicating with the ECM/PCM creating several PO codes and a no start event on the side of the road. You probably WON'T be seeing any expensive tools, fasteners or wrenches with "MM" behind the numbers. Won't see me mapping injector cycles on a laptop, Most likely will NOT be "re-flashing the computer" or installing any "software fixes and upgrades", highly unlikely that I'll be doing any troubleshooting of a Chinese made circuit board with a multi-meter and a test light, and I DANG sure won't be waiting on Jegs, Amazon, Summit, Auto Zone or Napa for an "back ordered, out of stock" trigger, sensor, relay, TCM/ECM/PCM or module.....

SIMPLICITY, RELIABILITY, FRUGALITY and POWER.

You might see an electronic ignition. Definitely disc brakes and radial tires. Perhaps sway bars and a lowering kit. Later model hard parts are on the menu. (Heads, roller cam etc) Possibly even a 5 speed. For certain a relocated gas tank and MAYBE an electric fuel pump. And I promise you, it will do everything that a late model truck does for a fraction of the price..... But if you are expecting crown Vic, EFI, AOD, 50 MPG or late model engine "swaps", you are DEFINITELY in the wrong thread.

Shall we begin?

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I was thinking you were just a troll after such a long time without a post. Jump on say a bunch of and bail. But as they always say put your money where your mouth is and lets have some fun. Nothing wrong with "old school" I always love me some old school cars done up "right' but I've learned to appreciate the new school as well so this should be fun to watch. Good luck to you

 

Does this honestly look like a "newer, better, more reliable, more efficient upgrade" to you?!?


This is an average day, and one of many on a huge pile of customer receipts, all but one related to computerized engine management systems. This particular repair cost more than a carbureted crate engine, or twice what I'd paid for my 72 F100 or 78 F250.

This was an almost new Chrysler product, and less than 1k out of warranty.

I don't ever remember having nearly 4k in repairs to fix anything on my DD '78 F-250, and that went almost 300k before needing a rebuild.

Moving right along.....

 

Here is the subject. A 1972 F100 short bed with a cobbled together 1990s style engine "swaps". Was told it ran fine when parked in 1998. Judging from the scorch marks where the headers end on the floor pan, the thick black oil and burnt tranny fluid, it had in fact ran at one time. How well, I don't know.

Everything here is a complete mystery. It was supposedly a 1989 5.0H.O. mustang GT engine, EFI, roller cam with a small-bell C6 behind it. I received it with an aluminum Ford 4 barrel intake, DS2 distributor and module, and all of the removed EFI garbage in a box. 351w firing order. E7TE heads, E6TE block. At one point, someone had considered running it EFI, butchered the wiring harness, then switched it to DS2.

Got it fired up. Wouldn't stay running. Flames through the carb, backfire through the exhaust. Change firing order to 302. Same result. Pull valve covers for verification. Same result. Pull distributor. Fine. Pull intake.

SURPRISE! Non-roller block.

Non H.O 302. Most likely a truck block. Most likely the cam gear is toast. Most likely will have to trace every wire in the ignition system to find what's right and what's wrong. Previous owner is not answering the phone.

And THIS, folks, is why "swaps" completely suck.

 

 

That looks like a cobbled together problem, a swap isn’t required for that. Buy someone else’s headache and you get….. a headache.

That’s a better argument pro swap, start with a running engine instead of cobbling one together.

 

Almost forgot to give a special shout out to my biggest poop-talking cowardly critic, behind the scenes shizzle talker, most underqualified commenter, my boy and yours for mockery and moronic stupidity, allow me to introduce the "mouth of the south".....Cousin "Cuz" Greg!

Without him, folks, this build wouldn't be possible. "Cuz" is the catalyst for many successful past, current and future projects.

He will be following along and commenting here and there from a few of his FTE aliases, when he should really be doing something about his failing 52 and 57 f100 projects that will never be finished.

Moving right along.....

 

Pretty confident you didn't read the whole thing. It WAS a running engine in 1998, and I, too had it running.

It's a "swaps", therefore it IS cobbled together like most "swaps" are. There is no technical blueprint for "swaps", therefore every "swap" is a gamble. (Check any of the "Pop-pop's truck" build threads on FTE for examples.) It all comes down to the skill and finances of the person doing the "swaps".

Please read things in thier entirety or not at all.

 

I have many good drivetrain options. I'm not sure which engine isi like to start with. I have a few engines and parts laying around....should I build...

-An early 429 thunderjet with D0VE heads for an easy 500 HP / 500 TQ at a nice, liesurely, low RPM?

- A "Boss 351" stroker? (think boss 71 Mach 1 specs) a bulletproof, reliable 400 M block with 4V quench heads and TMI stroker kit for the always angry and ill-informed "you can't build a 351M!" crowd?

- A traditional, flat tappet, solid lifter "Boss 302" clevor, and twist it to 7500 rpm?

- a roller cammed mustang GT or explorer 302 or 347 build with an E or B cam, GT40P heads, performer RPM intake and use the 1990s formula for 11 second naturally aspirated quarter miles @ 21MPG for a fun, reliable quick daily driver?

- low mileage Ford van 351w roller engine, free for the taking. Apparently 351W truck blocks topped with GT40 heads and mustang GT cam specs were the foundation of the F150 "lightning", and REALLY respond well to a carb/distributor upgrade. I may go this route for drivability, ease of installation and compatibility of existing parts.

Thoughts, experience s and input appreciated!

 

Truck looks far from almost wasted by the swap. Motor is a bolt in with no modification required. Wiring harness could be replaced in a day with an OEM style harness if it is hacked that badly. A weekend to put a universal harness in it.

I would love to see a muscle car that can do 9s with a cam swap and slicks. Getting a car into the 9s takes a lot of work and money.

You act like people who do modern engine swaps have never built a car with a carb. I bet most of them own a well built carb car. I did a coyote swap (with junk yard parts as you mentioned) and have built carbed cars. I just bought a Muncie 4 speed for my next project that will have a carb. Chevy stuff... Sorry everyone but I have a lot of Chevy parts...

90s fuel injection can be a pain. I don't care for pre OBDlI but plenty of people like it.

I can understand modern swaps not being your cup of tea but they are popular for many reasons.

You may want to drop by the engine specific section to find people that extremely knowledgeable with your different engine options.

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Eh, I've been doing this since like, 1983 or something. Have done it for a living on and off for a great many years. I'm no stranger to "swaps", EFI, computer controls, general hot rod and customs or low buck engine builds. Lots of Ford junk in my arsenal.

Most people going for a late model "swaps" HAVE NOT built or owned a carb'd car, or thier knowledge of them are extremely limited. Again, check out any of the hundreds of "Pop-pop's truck" build threads on FTE to read the ignorance, myths and stupidity surrounding "old school" drivetrains. Some of these guys hadn't even turned the key before ripping the original drivetrains out.

Hemi dart, L88 Vette, AC Cobra all went nines with minimal mods, LS6 Chevelle, 428scj Stang, Buick GSX, hemi cuda, COPO camaro and a bunch of others in the 10s and 11s today with stock short blocks, carbs and iron heads according to class rules. Daily driven by old men who've owned them since they got back from Vietnam. These are factory cars with license plates and carburetors buddy.

My truck may not look too damaged from the "swaps" until you see the floorpan where someone desperately tried to make mustang headers fit: with a hammer. The carburetor fire was pretty epic too, check out that toasty firewall. Probably have the wrong torque converter, flexplate and harmonic balancer for a 5.0 conversion from the looks of things, And cooked wiring isn't fun to deal with either. I've cleaned alot of it up while trying to make a decision which direction to go with it. Easy fix, but.....

Typical "swaps" recovery.

Can we get started now, or are we going to stay all butt hurt because I am not a fan of changing sensors on my weekends away from changing sensors?

 

You have obviously been jaded by a swap gone wrong, your subject in the post kind of leads me to believe that, and will be a naysayer to anything that would come to be good from a swap moving forward. I do hope you get the subject to your liking, and it sounds as though you have the knowledge to do so, so it will only be a matter of time. However the claim that all swaps are hacked is your opinion and not everyone has the same opinion as you. Many on this forum have done very clean and reliable engine and drivetrain swaps and would do it again if they desired. The thing is, they did the swap for themselves, not the next guy, he wasn't even in the plan. Also, the next guy should know what he is buying, or at least expect something will not be right, and not be upset after the purchase.

 

After that rant I'm out.

 

I totally understand your view. I like the look and mechanical character of old cars and trucks. I like all the idiosyncrasies and and the road feel, etc. and that's why I'm keeping my old truck mostly stock.

In all sincerity, I have to say that your first post did seem to be kicking the hornets nest just a little. I don't think people are 'butt hurt,' they're just reacting to the tone of the posts. Kick it down a notch and I think everyone will get along fine.