Notices
1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Dentsides Ford Truck
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Moser

Master Cylinder—Normal or Not?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 14, 2021 | 06:30 PM
  #16  
Truckerbase's Avatar
Truckerbase
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp
Glad you brought that up!
Usually a manual brake master is the one with the deeper recess on the back of the piston, while the masters meant for a booster have the shallow recess.
The rod you're picturing and we're talking about is the "pedal to master" rod and as moose said, is not used in a boosted application. The boosters themselves have their own rod sticking out of the business end.

Curious what setup you have now. Since Ford saw fit to use a great many different pedal, rod, booster and master combinations just on our range of model year trucks, I'm curious which one you have.
Got any pics under the hood for us?

Thanks

Paul
Absolutely.





 
Reply
Old Jul 14, 2021 | 06:36 PM
  #17  
Truckerbase's Avatar
Truckerbase
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 11
Under dash…

 
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2021 | 03:09 AM
  #18  
1TonBasecamp's Avatar
1TonBasecamp
Lead Driver
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Community Builder
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 1,192
From: San Jose, CA
Thanks for the pics!
So everything I said previously about the pedal-to-master rods is still true, but not in your case. You did correct to not try to figure out the extra rods. Those are for manual brakes only.
The boot is not used in your case, but I can't see anything that would let it cause problems. It's just a rubber boot after all, and not likely to be in the way of anything. Just not needed. Maybe others can weigh in on the need to remove it, or not.
Guessing this is the reason you did not find any videos of it, if you were only watching videos done by those also with vacuum booster setups.

I'm guessing you have a booster with a long rod sticking out the front? There are generally two styles, short and long. The short ones need master cylinders either with a shallow piston well, or with an optional "bullet" that slips into a deep well piston and acts as a spacer. If your parts did not match, your pedal would have gone to the floor or your master would never have mounted up. So you had just the right combination of parts it seems.

Some things I note from your pics.
1. You have a separate ballast-resistor on the firewall (the ceramic based thingy with the wires going to it). This is not normal for a Ford, as our trucks have a resistor wire from the ignition switch to the ignition coil. Perhaps yours was removed by a PO or had failed and was replaced by a ballast resistor. Or perhaps it came with the new coil and the installer thought it was needed. Was that done by you? You should measure voltage at the coil under different conditions and see what results you get. Let us know the voltage readings and we can advise.
2. The coil is laying down flat. This is how Ford did it, but it is not recommended with non-original replacement coils because they can overheat. It might not be a big deal in your case if it's been this way a long time and has run for years. But if it's a new install you might take the time to move it to an upright position as recommended by most manufacturers. Unless this coil came with some paperwork that said it's ok to lay it down?
3. On the passenger side valve cover is a cap. Does this have a legitimate filter in it? Or is it just a metal mesh medium? Since the PCV system is constantly sucking outside air into the engine through this breather cap, it needs to be of the filter type.
4. Where does the third heater hose go? I'm not familiar with that type of setup, so am curious. You have the two normal hoses, but in the front near the alternator there is a T fitting with a hose heading off and around the back of the engine. Can you follow it and let me know? Thanks!
5. The throttle linkage rod has a Z-bend in it to accommodate the wider Edelbrock/Carter carburetor. This is a potential flex point, especially if the return spring setup is extra stiff. You might have a helper push the throttle while you watch it to make sure it's not flexing much, and keeping you from opening the throttle all the way.
6. You have a newer style Ford starter relay (aka the "solenoid") on the fender. This is a good thing actually, but I just wanted to let you know in case you ever need a replacement and the one you get does not look anything like the one on there now. You'll need to use a later '80's Ford vehicle as the application if you want to get the same style. If you use your year you will get the earlier design.
Not a bad thing, but your wiring is already laid out for the new style in case that makes it harder to use a different one.
7. Lack of a body ground from the battery. Or at least it looks like it from here. The additional 10ga "pigtail" with yellow crimp connector is for an additional ground to the body. Ford did it a different way with the main cable, so when we change the cables out for aftermarket this often gets forgotten or ignored. When you get the chance crimp a length of black 10ga wire to it and attach it to the fender with an existing bolt. Maybe evne use one of the starter relay bolts.
8. This last one is a bit of a nit-pick (you mean the rest wasn't?!) but it's one of my pet peeves when I see it. Which is fairly often apparently because everyone remembers looking under the hood of millions of GM cars and trucks that grounded the battery to the alternator bracket. Frankly, if millions of GM vehicles worked this way for decades, it can't be all bad. And it isn't, it's just not the best practice.
The main ground cable from the battery is better utilized if it's mounted to the engine closer to the starter motor. Like Ford did it originally in fact. But it's not the end of the world to have it like yours is. Just that if you ever get a new cable you might get a longer one and find a bolt on the engine block down lower off of the bracket.

Some of those were curiosities, some potential problems to look into, and others were just little "by the way" items.

Nice truck by the way! Looks like it's coming along on the body side of things.
Thanks again for the pics.

Paul
 
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2021 | 09:37 AM
  #19  
Truckerbase's Avatar
Truckerbase
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp
Thanks for the pics!
So everything I said previously about the pedal-to-master rods is still true, but not in your case. You did correct to not try to figure out the extra rods. Those are for manual brakes only.
The boot is not used in your case, but I can't see anything that would let it cause problems. It's just a rubber boot after all, and not likely to be in the way of anything. Just not needed. Maybe others can weigh in on the need to remove it, or not.
Guessing this is the reason you did not find any videos of it, if you were only watching videos done by those also with vacuum booster setups.

I'm guessing you have a booster with a long rod sticking out the front? There are generally two styles, short and long. The short ones need master cylinders either with a shallow piston well, or with an optional "bullet" that slips into a deep well piston and acts as a spacer. If your parts did not match, your pedal would have gone to the floor or your master would never have mounted up. So you had just the right combination of parts it seems.

Some things I note from your pics.
1. You have a separate ballast-resistor on the firewall (the ceramic based thingy with the wires going to it). This is not normal for a Ford, as our trucks have a resistor wire from the ignition switch to the ignition coil. Perhaps yours was removed by a PO or had failed and was replaced by a ballast resistor. Or perhaps it came with the new coil and the installer thought it was needed. Was that done by you? You should measure voltage at the coil under different conditions and see what results you get. Let us know the voltage readings and we can advise.
2. The coil is laying down flat. This is how Ford did it, but it is not recommended with non-original replacement coils because they can overheat. It might not be a big deal in your case if it's been this way a long time and has run for years. But if it's a new install you might take the time to move it to an upright position as recommended by most manufacturers. Unless this coil came with some paperwork that said it's ok to lay it down?
3. On the passenger side valve cover is a cap. Does this have a legitimate filter in it? Or is it just a metal mesh medium? Since the PCV system is constantly sucking outside air into the engine through this breather cap, it needs to be of the filter type.
4. Where does the third heater hose go? I'm not familiar with that type of setup, so am curious. You have the two normal hoses, but in the front near the alternator there is a T fitting with a hose heading off and around the back of the engine. Can you follow it and let me know? Thanks!
5. The throttle linkage rod has a Z-bend in it to accommodate the wider Edelbrock/Carter carburetor. This is a potential flex point, especially if the return spring setup is extra stiff. You might have a helper push the throttle while you watch it to make sure it's not flexing much, and keeping you from opening the throttle all the way.
6. You have a newer style Ford starter relay (aka the "solenoid") on the fender. This is a good thing actually, but I just wanted to let you know in case you ever need a replacement and the one you get does not look anything like the one on there now. You'll need to use a later '80's Ford vehicle as the application if you want to get the same style. If you use your year you will get the earlier design.
Not a bad thing, but your wiring is already laid out for the new style in case that makes it harder to use a different one.
7. Lack of a body ground from the battery. Or at least it looks like it from here. The additional 10ga "pigtail" with yellow crimp connector is for an additional ground to the body. Ford did it a different way with the main cable, so when we change the cables out for aftermarket this often gets forgotten or ignored. When you get the chance crimp a length of black 10ga wire to it and attach it to the fender with an existing bolt. Maybe evne use one of the starter relay bolts.
8. This last one is a bit of a nit-pick (you mean the rest wasn't?!) but it's one of my pet peeves when I see it. Which is fairly often apparently because everyone remembers looking under the hood of millions of GM cars and trucks that grounded the battery to the alternator bracket. Frankly, if millions of GM vehicles worked this way for decades, it can't be all bad. And it isn't, it's just not the best practice.
The main ground cable from the battery is better utilized if it's mounted to the engine closer to the starter motor. Like Ford did it originally in fact. But it's not the end of the world to have it like yours is. Just that if you ever get a new cable you might get a longer one and find a bolt on the engine block down lower off of the bracket.

Some of those were curiosities, some potential problems to look into, and others were just little "by the way" items.

Nice truck by the way! Looks like it's coming along on the body side of things.
Thanks again for the pics.

Paul
Great info, thanks!

1) Firewall resistor-not done by me. Truck was an Idaho farm truck; the farm mechanic who maintained it macgyvered everything on the truck, jury rigged. The ignition coil wire I replaced was composed of different bits of spare wire twisted together, for example. Not sure I follow the “measure voltage at the coil” thing. The truck starts every time after I replaced the coil, coil wire, distributor cap and rotor. I’ve tested the “ceramic thingy” when I first bought the truck and starting was dicey. It had 12 volts going in and much less going out, maybe 7 or 8 volts

2) Noted. I replaced the coil, but originally was flat also. It’s mounted on a bracket that hovers over the engine.

3). Passenger side cap is metal filter, good catch.

4). Heater hose set up is different. Cold Idaho. Heater hose goes through carburetor baseplate.

5). Noted. Good point.

6). Thanks. Well, the starter relay may be the newer style, but the old thing sure looks original as old and junky as it looks.

7). Interestingly, when I first got the truck, all lights on the truck, cab, running, and headlights would flicker and pulse. Went looking for a bad ground. Whether my renewing existing grounds had an effect, truck no longer pulses…

8) Noted. Wilco. And a question: why does the FE 390 have a giant hose clamp holding the starter on the truck? Is that seriously normal? I’m used to Chevy not ford, 2 bolts usually hold starters on. Have never had a problem with the starter, and have been working on many different systems sufficient to have not gotten around to looking closer. I assume it must have a stripped or broken bolt….

yes, body side coming along, all dents removed, holes filled, patch panels welded in (cab corners, floor pan, front door pillar, inner and middle rocker panel, etc) and rock chips feathered and filled. Partly because of all the farm mechanic jury rigging and piecing bits and parts from other vehicles, and partly because of the frankentruck body, I call her “PsychoBilly Cadillac” from the Johnny Cash song….
 
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2021 | 01:56 PM
  #20  
1TonBasecamp's Avatar
1TonBasecamp
Lead Driver
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Community Builder
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 1,192
From: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted by Truckerbase
And a question: why does the FE 390 have a giant hose clamp holding the starter on the truck? Is that seriously normal? I’m used to Chevy not ford, 2 bolts usually hold starters on.
Originally Posted by Truckerbase
Truck was an Idaho farm truck; the farm mechanic who maintained it macgyvered everything on the truck, jury rigged.
Originally Posted by Truckerbase
I assume it must have a stripped or broken bolt.
Now this we really gotta' see! But I think you answered your own question.
No, it's not a Ford thing. Two or three bolts (depending on the engine family and model) and never a hose clamp that I'm aware of.

Paul
 
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2021 | 02:22 PM
  #21  
redroad's Avatar
redroad
Lead Driver
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,217
Likes: 506
From: Pa.
Club FTE Gold Member
On the heated carb base plate that is a 60's thing. By the 70's cold weather starting was controlled by an air cleaner with a vacuum controlled air diverter in the snorkel. The vacuum switch was located where the radiator hose went into the motor. When cold the flapper allowed hot air from a collector mounted on passenger side exhaust manifold plumbed to the underside of the air cleaner snorkel. When the motor reached temp the vacuum switch allowed vacuum to pull the diverter closed on the air cleaner snorkel and then air was pulled straight in from the end of the air cleaner snorkel. It makes me wonder what vintage the motor is if it had the coolant heated carb base or maybe "PsychoBilly" added it.

On a side note where I'm from we call those vehicles "Rez cars" and we have our own song to go with it.

 
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2021 | 04:08 PM
  #22  
Truckerbase's Avatar
Truckerbase
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp
Now this we really gotta' see! But I think you answered your own question.
No, it's not a Ford thing. Two or three bolts (depending on the engine family and model) and never a hose clamp that I'm aware of.

Paul
Careful what you wish for….


 
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2021 | 04:13 PM
  #23  
Truckerbase's Avatar
Truckerbase
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by Truckerbase
Careful what you wish for….
 
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Fords to Drive Before You Die

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

3 Best / Worst Features Of The 2025+ Ford Expedition

 Brett Foote
story-2

10 Ways Ford is LOSING to the Competition

 Joe Kucinski
story-3

Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now

 Brett Foote
story-4

This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership

 Brett Foote
story-7

10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-8

Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained

 Brett Foote
story-9

10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
Old Jul 17, 2021 | 02:57 AM
  #24  
1TonBasecamp's Avatar
1TonBasecamp
Lead Driver
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Community Builder
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 1,192
From: San Jose, CA
Looks like the clamp might be for holding a heat shield on to the main body of the starter. Although from here at least it looks as if the shield (if that's what it is) has slipped around so that it's not between the starter and exhaust anymore. Or is it more than a half-round and is in fact still blocking some exhaust heat?

And your starter cable looks like it's been through the wars and needs to be retired.

Paul
 
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2021 | 03:03 AM
  #25  
Truckerbase's Avatar
Truckerbase
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 175
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp
Looks like the clamp might be for holding a heat shield on to the main body of the starter. Although from here at least it looks as if the shield (if that's what it is) has slipped around so that it's not between the starter and exhaust anymore. Or is it more than a half-round and is in fact still blocking some exhaust heat?

And your starter cable looks like it's been through the wars and needs to be retired.

Paul
I will see what I can do! : o P
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
pagoda69
1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
3
Jun 28, 2019 07:22 AM
walkman
1983 - 2012 Ranger & B-Series
13
Jan 14, 2009 05:02 AM
sedly
Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels
1
Dec 23, 2007 07:46 PM
78 explorer
1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
4
Nov 23, 2005 04:38 AM
D_STICK
1978 - 1996 Big Bronco
4
Jul 14, 2001 01:01 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:36 AM.

story-0
10 Fords to Drive Before You Die

Slideshow: 10 Fords to drive before you die.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-22 14:29:44


VIEW MORE
story-1
3 Best / Worst Features Of The 2025+ Ford Expedition

The latest Expedition is quite popular, but it certainly isn't perfect.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-22 14:23:19


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Ways Ford is LOSING to the Competition

Slideshow: 10 ways Ford is losing to the competition

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-15 09:52:01


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now

Some great targets in today's expensive world.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-15 09:35:19


VIEW MORE
story-4
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level

Slideshow: The VelociRaptor Expedition gains a lift, upgraded suspension, Brembo brakes, and trail-ready equipment while retaining the stock 440-horsepower EcoBoost V6.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-06-12 11:01:55


VIEW MORE
story-5
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals

Slideshow: Top 10 Fords at 2026 Ford Nationals

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-09 11:10:08


VIEW MORE
story-6
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership

Based on years of owning multiple modern Ford products.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-09 10:53:36


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches

SPONSORED: From muddy boots to rain-soaked cargo, these upgrades address some of the most common frustrations Ford truck owners face every day.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-06-08 18:50:34


VIEW MORE
story-8
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained

Here's everything you need to know about every Ford engine available for the 2026 model year.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-05 12:58:01


VIEW MORE
story-9
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Ford trucks that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 09:51:16


VIEW MORE