Thanks, Bob.

Although you believe the factory SB is plenty, did you notice any difference between it and the Hellwig? Did you try different settings on the Hellwig?

Thx,
Jim / crewzer

 

Let's not forget the rear Big Wig sway bar may be adjustable for some of us. Mine has 3 settings and I can definitely note the difference between the firmest and softest settings. I ran the softest during the winter months. Will be upgrading the front soon as well. Cheap mod in my opinion.

 

I did my first rear swaybar upgrade in 1964

OEM Vs Hellwig Big Wig on my F 350

F 350 Dually OEM sway bar Vs Hellwig Big Wig sway bar....incredible difference in performance and handling!

 

My exp over 50 years is most people have no idea what a swaybar is or does.

What it is: Torsion bar connected to both sides of the frame and axle group.

What does it do: It affects the lateral loading that take place as your drive and corner, it also works with the braking and acceleration actions. Roads are not even and roads are not flat and the sway bar works to keep the vehicle planted and running flat.

Does the diameter of the swaybar have any effect on its operations? Its a Torsion bar and the larger the diameter the more resistance to inputs, thus keeping your vehicle more stable and flat.

Does it work better than OEM? Yes and No. Depends upon your needs and application. Since you are in this subforum that implies you have a TC in the bed of your truck. Assuming your truck has a swaybar, not all do because what would dictate the swaybar application would the payload rating. You just bought a Host Mammoth, it loaded out and adds 5850 lbs to the bed of your truck, it also has impacted the CoG as it sits higher. Is stability and safety concern? You might want to install a Hellwig unless you have an F 450 which has the Hellwing or = OEM (been told Ford outsources the F450 swaybar to Hellwig due to limited sales of the F 450).

Is there a downside? Could be if the soft and cushy ride is your goal, swaybars firm up the ride, I personally like it, I like the firmer, more responsive taut ride swaybars provide.

 

Don knows his stuff.
Yesterday I installed the factory anti sway bar on my 2020 F-350 as it had no camper package.
Details make a difference.
Don's very heavy truck camper is on the right 8 foot bed truck with the correct heavy duty sway bar for that weight, height, and center of gravity.

Our Northstar Laredo is at the other end of the spectrum weighing in @ 2350 pounds with 1 full propane bottle; 5 gallons of toilet flush water; 6 gallons of water heater water; and 40 gallons of fresh water.
Our current Ford F-350 has the not-heavy duty spring pack with single upper overload, or as us old timers would say, an upper secondary or auxiliary spring.
I have a long history of fiddling with leaf spring suspensions on a variety of vehicles with an eye to tuning for the GVW and conditions expected.
The last one was our 2001 SRW Dodge Cummins H.O. 6-speed manual with the 'camper package' which included a single upper overload, a factory anti-sway bar, and a 35 spline Dana 80 rear axle. A friend asked if i needed any more upper overload leaves from his same year dually Dodge. Mine was one thicker leaf. His were a pair of thinner leaves. I took them and incorporated them into the uppers to have 3 uppers. With our old 1843 pound (with propane and water) Lance Lite 165-s it was a perfect match as it did not affect the unloaded ride very much but added a LOT of stability anti sway and load carrying ability. I also use Stable Loads to engage the overloads sooner. I learned that there are several ways to get to a ride and suspension that you can live with.
This is all completely dependent on what kind of surface you are running on. Someone above mentioned they did not like the pitching they got with the s.b. on an undulating sandy two track across the desert. I agree.
Eventually, to raise the rear up a bit to level with a load (I had 3 inch coil spring riser pucks in the front), I added one 1K overload spring to the lower pack. This did the trick producing what I consider a triple suspension. MT the rear axle flexes easily with the single 1K overload. But with a suspension that pliable you need more shocking. Add a little more weight and the uppers via the Stable Loads come into play by degrees. This setup easily carried over 5000 pounds of crushed rock up and down the Sierra Nevada on my Dodge 2500.
After trying it with and without the factory sway bar, given the weight of our rig, I found out that the more leaf springs you have the less a sway bar helps you. It is muscled out of the picture. But the cost is a rougher ride. If, like me you have your camper on most of the time, it's an easy decision.

This setup made a 3 inch loaded lift

So we get to the current F-350. It came with a front sway bar but no rear sway bar so I tried Super Springs Sway Stops (i know, too much alliteration) and they work o.k. but will get replaced by the Stable Loads. Next I tried to find, as I had above in the past, more upper overload springs to see if that would help with the sway and stability. I'm not far off the mark right now and the test drive yesterday with the factory sway bar added indicated that the lean in curves on the highway has been reduced. Taking the TC off-road has shown no ill effects of pitching around you get with a stiff sway bar.
I got on line to find an extra pair of factory overload springs and found out they are not available separately but only as a complete spring pack.
That's not going to work and I don't want to peruse junk yards looking for used 2017+ factory overload springs.
Not quite there yet, but a local truck spring business says they can produce any spring rate I want in a single leaf that will match what we have.
I'm hopeful this will be the final installment of Spring Fantasies.
jefe di nada

 

Jefe let me spring this on you:

Since your truck did not come with an upper overload sping, then turn to that custom shop add that upper overload. I would use the same deflection rate as the F 350/450 upper overload. WHY? I carry 6000 lbs int bed of the truck and do withOUT mods of any kind. I ride perfectly level.

Also is a pic of my rear spring pac. I REALLLLLY like Fords approach, what you is 2 spring pacs. So you well they are on the same axle, held on by the same bolts! True, but they can operate independently of each other. Its a brilliant design. Granted I am a PURIST when it comes to suspension. IMO everything you do to your truck to carry, payload, tow, haul begins at the Spring pac, shocks, Swaybar. Every mod I have ever made to my suspension has been an modified organic component. Example: Upper Stableloads are only an extension of the organic rubber bumper that contacts the overload spring. A bigger swaybar is just that, bigger.

That said there is a plethora of stuff you can add to your suspension that are not organic to the aforementioned components. THe most popular and just about thje least useful are Airbags. They serve a specfic purpose and I have employed them many times over my past 60 years of driving. Howver everytime I used them I NEEDED them. My most recent was to level out laterally my F 350 that carried my Arctic Fox 1150. For what reason I leaned to the drivers side of the truck and employed airbags to mitigate it. Most airbags are used to lift a sagging rear truck. A viable solution IF you worked with you existing suspension to solve the issue. What airbags do when they lift the read is to transfer wieght to the rear axle itself. Most over inflate and in doing so the overload spring is not engaged.



Here I have almost 4000 lbs of rock in the bed of my F 450 and over 80% of it extends beyond the rear of the axle. You might note that my truck is not squatting and in fact still retains a bit of the factor rake, not much but a bit.




This is my rear spring pac. I like the dual suspension concept.

 

Jefe,

I’m corn-fuzed. Specifically, your truck should have been equipped with the 4+1 rear spring pack configuration. That’s the highest-rated factory rear spring pack for an F-350 SRW… there’s nothing heavier-duty.

Is something missing from your truck, or am I missing something?

???
Jim / crewzer

 

I thought same, but he said no and since it so easy to add one, just do it.

 

I’m OK with necessary / beneficial mods, but I also think we need to correctly understand the baseline and what we’re really working with.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer

 

Jim anytime you play with driveline and suspension it should be driven by needs. There are a ton of gimmicks out there most of which are adds and not improvements of an organic component. Much of it is dubious as to what it contributes.

This always comes to mind. THe first time I saw it was in a JC Whitney catalog back in the early 60's...


https://www.toiletpaperoilfilter.com...ercompany.html

 

Well, it is design to absorb liquid and hold solids.............
I'm sure it be ok for the home jobber. Pro sprayer, not so much!

 

Jim, Don, Bert,
Sorry for the delay. A couple friends moved in after a mandatory fire evacuation from their home here in Northern CA, so we've been entertaining for a couple days.
I was under the impression that there were a couple different rated spring packs for the rear axle of the F-350. That appears to be delusional.
There are several non-lift, aftermarket spring packs with more and thinner leaves for a smoother ride.
I reexamined some earlier models of Ford upper overload leaves and found a listing for a 2007 F-250/350 as a separate part without buying the whole spring pack. I ordered p.n. 5C3Z-5588-CA. 2 for $120.69.
In running the site's fitment, i was told it would not fit my 2020. I know that Ford increased the length of their rear springs around 2017, which may or may not have included the upper.

My reasoning is, even if the spring is shorter it can reside below the stock upper. If it has a smaller center hole, I can drill it. It really can stand alone. I can do the job by jacking up one side at a time, installing my extra tall jack stands under the frame, removing one wheel at a time and removing the U-bolts, one side at a time and lifting the top overload and plate off with the main pack still poised on the perch. Hopefully the U-bolts have enough thread left to accept the thin extra upper overload. I'll check it out before i start.
Here's a pic of my rear spring pack/Sway Stop/factory anti-sway bar with the weight of the MT camper on; about 2000 pounds. The Sway Stops are engaging the uppers already, but not much. It gets a lot more load when....
Adding about 850 pounds of water, food, 2 people and sundry other camping stuff and a lot more deflection to the uppers.

When I added 2 thin upper overload to my Dodge I had to use new, longer U-bolts to span the leaves.

 

Jefe,

Thanks for the clarification. You are correct in that there are two rear spring configurations for the MY2017 F-350 SRW.

The first is the standard 3+1 configuration on the base F-350 with 17” wheels and a gas engine. This appears to be the same rear spring pack used on most F-250’s with the optional camper package. However, my understanding is that adding the optional camper package to this F-350 SRW build does not include an additional leaf beyond the 3+1.

Opting for the Diesel engine and/or 18” or 20” wheels, the F-350 SRW’s rear spring packs are upgraded to 4+1, again with or without the optional camper package.

Thanks for including the picture of your modified rear suspension. It appears that we’ve taken similar approaches to engaging the auxiliary leaves.

The fire news from Oregon and Northern California is devastating. I hope your friends, their homes, and their neighbors all make it through OK.

Regards,
Jim / crewzer

 

Thanks Jefe. And to echo Jim, fingers crossed your house guests home/property is spared. I can imagine it's pretty nerve wracking, sitting and wondering.

Those Sway Stop blocks are smart, being able to add/remove sections for customization. That makes a lot of sense to me over solid blocks.

Look forward to hearing your impressions once you add the extra springs. For a $120 seems like a cheap, easy mod should it work satisfactorily. For those of us way below your pay grade, what is the small hole you you mentioned drilling out, and why?

Would it be correct to assume, since the extra spring is going in under the upper, that it will have all but zero impact on unloaded feel?

Thanks!

 

Spring rates