Im checking the parts and illustration guide now but wanted to ask if anyone knows if Ford ever offered the rubber distributor cover on our trucks like they did on the cars?

I found one reproduction online for 79-90 Mustangs but not seeing anything under the distributor diagrams on the truck parts and illustration guide.

 

Never on the trucks, they fix one problem but create another.

 

Thats what I figured. It is a option I am keeping open if I ever end up with RFI issues when I ever decide to let my holley efi control timing down the road. Lots of ford guys on the holley group was saying they used the distributor cover and lined the inside with foil to stop the RFI interference with the ECM.

If I do the upgrade I probably wont run the holley distributor but try and go with something more ford looking that has a locked out advance for timing control but many people seem to be having RFI issues if they go with the timing control option.

 

Just use the Ford distributor and pull the weights and block off the vac advance, the distributor will be locked out.

 

Thats what I thought of doing, I just havent seen many people do the DSII distributor like that and letting the holley ECM to control timing. Im not sure about longevity is the main thing. It would be easier for me to do down the road as I can just take my new distributor I currently have and gut it and lock it out. The only choice then would be if I want to use the holley coil driver in conjunction with the OE distributor or if I want to dump the DSII module and throw in a MSD module which would be plug and play with the holley.

 

From what I could gather the Holley Sniper EFI can use any electronic dist pick-up signal, if that is the case then any distributor would be as good as any other distributor as you are just using it for signal generation and spark distribution. As long as you are not spinning sustained high RPM's (like on an oval track or in a jet boat) the DS II distributor will be more than adequate. Make sure the DS II dist has the upper shaft busing installed ( Most were not from the factory) and it would be good for sustained high RPM also.

 

Correct, you can use an electronic distributor as a signal generator for the sniper. The thing is though you have to have some kind of driver for the coil, either a MSD box that the sniper will be triggering or the supplied coil driver that you can hook directly to the coil and the sniper can run it to charge and fire the coil. I tried to see if there was a way to modify the DSII module to make it a driver that the sniper fire it, I figured instead of letting the signal from the DS II distributor go to the module to control the firing I could simply hook it up to the sniper but no one not even holley responded with confirming if it could be done. It would be easier for me as I can pick up DS II modules at the auto parts store if I ever had a failure, but with the Holley coil driver or a MSD box I would have to order them and wait if I have a failure. The coil driver I wouldnt have that big of a issue with as I have like 9 of them at work as all snipers come with the coil driver even if you dont use it and Ive never installed one at work. But I dont know how good those coil drivers are. Plus I am not sure how hard it would be to hide that little rectangular box that is mounted inline of the wires that goes into the driver module.

I am redoing the wiring on my truck when I go to drop the new engine in, things like the connectors for the vent bowl valves and emission connectors that wont have anything to plug into anymore will be taped up and as best as possible encased in a woven split loom material to tidy everything up. The wiring for the sniper and modifications for the AC clutch circuit would be done the same way routed through the same woven split loom material. So I will have to wait and see on that, I could bolt a MSD box on the fender where the DSII module originally went and make my connections via the DSII to MSD adapter harness and then simply plug the sniper into the MSD box, the sniper since Holley owns MSD now comes with a twisted pair green/purple wire that is plug and play with the sniper for triggering.

But my issue is no one can tell a straight answer on what you need to prevent RFI. They say you need suppression plugs and plug wires and holley recommends the MSD wiring cause obviously they own MSD. But I got the recommended by AFR for my heads plugs which are Autolite 3924 which are listed as resistor plugs. Then the MSD plug wires that holley recommends is because they have 50 ohms/ft of resistance but holley tech on the sniper owners group I am on states 350 - 500 ohms per foot is ideal that the higher the resistance will help reduce the bleed off of RFI while on the super low resistance plug wires like the MSD if there is any spot that the shielding is damaged or missed during production it can cause a huge rfi leak. Thing is they dont state if you can run higher than 500 ohms per foot or not, the Ford Racing plug wires that I use I cant find a spec for it. I have seen it stated they are 500 ohms/foot to 1,000 ohms/foot and even some state they are around 50 ohms/foot. Fords website doesnt list this spec and the spec I see is only touted by other people claiming that is what it is. I do know holley recommends a 9mm plug wire or as close to it as possible as the larger wire will help reduce RFI and these are 9mm but the resistance spec is what I am curious about and cant get a straight answer for it.

For me I want to do all this once and not be chasing my tail trying to figure out whats going on. Why I am making sure the plugs and plug wires are resistor types to reduce RFI but the big question is how much of a suppression is it and is it enough to prevent RFI on my sniper. It might not cause a problem letting my DSII control timing but it could cause a problem once I move up to full timing control. Lots of people talk about how great their sniper ran before they installed the timing control distributor and had mounds of RFI issues that made their vehicle undriveable. I really dont need the timing control but everyone swears up and down the timing control will make the engine run so much smoother and better by varying timing along with the IAC to help maintain a smooth idle vs relying on just the IAC.

 

If the sniper will output the same/similar profile signal as the pick up in the dist there is no reason the DS module would not work. What I would ask Holley is if you use the DS distributor will the sniper out put the same profile trigger signal that is input, they should at least have the info on what the trigger signal profile is like. I mean I would pose to them as such. You want to spend X dollars on your product you should at least be able to tell me what the specifications are for system integration. And really if you can not provide this basic information WTF is gonna happen when I actually have a real problem?.


I would not use the Ford racing wires personally they are sort of hit and miss at best in terms of quality control. I would just make my own wires TBH. Then all your concerns are addressed.

The EVAP system is easy to sort out.

keep us updated on how you are making out.

 

I asked holley once before and it seems like you get different answers every time you ask but the general consensus is the sniper wont be capable of driving the DSII module nor will it work with the TFI distributor with the side mounted module. I assume its the output but that doesnt make sense to me cause it is plug and play with a MSD CD box and you can buy a MSD CD box and run it with a plug and play DSII adapter harness that will convert the OE DSII module connector to the MSD CD connector. Based off this I feel that it should be capable of triggering the DSII module by simply removing the trigger wire from the distributor to the DSII module and use that for the signal for the timing control aspect of the sniper then the output signal should in theory be able to be directed down the same harness on its way to the DSII module.

Only thing that may take some figuring out would be the ignition retard on crank that is in the DSII modules seeing as the sniper will control the ignition timing. I guess could just leave the timing defaulted to the base timing till running and let the DSII module do its crank retard. Think I am going to email holley again and see if I can get a answer on if its possible to run the DSII distributor and DSII module with the sniper seeing as the DSII module is no different than the MSD CD box, they are both ignition modules of a sort with the main difference for the MSD being that its multiple sparks per firing.

I havent really had problems with the Ford plug wires the only issue I noticed is the plug wires are not really the proper length for a 302 firing order but they work out a lot better for a 302HO/351W firing order, since my 302 will be the 302HO firing order now with the roller cam I will be running I should be able to route the wires fairly nice and hopefully I can get the proform wire separators to work with my proform valve covers otherwise I got a set of the individual proform Ford racing marked wire separators without bracket.

I plan on doing a write up with photos on here like I will be doing on the other forum. I just have to get my short block in which I expect to ship any day now. Going to be fun trying to figure out the process for picking it up from the UPS freight hub here in Houston. There is no website, no listing of hours of operation, no listing of the process of receiving your freight. Only thing is some guy posted in the review he did searching online and eventually found their business hours is 8am to 12pm which seems a bit odd for a freight yard to only be open to pickup for half a day. But I want to document my layout with the hopes of helping others that may decide to go the same route I am going. Like for example most people like we do at work we simply run EFI rated push lock fuel hose from the tank to the sniper, I dont want that for my truck and the sniper stealth I have to use lacks the pressure regulator like the standard sniper so my plan is to run a single 3/8" stainless steel fuel line along the frame that will connect a frame mounted Corvette fuel filter/pressure regulator to the front of the truck with a short hose between the frame mounted fuel line and a custom bent 3/8" stainless steel hardline on the engine flared for use with -6AN fittings. This way I limit the amount of fuel hose to just short runs from the 85/86 sending unit to the fuel filter/pressure regulator and the short flex joint under the hood. Ideally Id love to run hardline from the fuel filter/pressure regulator to the top side of the tank and run short flex hoses to connect to the hardline, but I know of no way of making a female quick disconnect connection unless I use -6AN quick disconnect adapters and thread the hardline into that. I know for the male quick disconnect on the front side of the filter/regulator assembly I will be renting the tool from autozone or advance for flaring quick disconnect and Ill flare the stainless steel hardline in a quick disconnect so the filter will simply snap onto the hardline.

Some people actually recommended I use some of that semi flexible plastic fuel line for my connection from the fuel tank to the fuel filter/regulator. I thought of it but I am kind of concerned about longevity of something like that considering we are now using this ethanol blended fuels and I also question how well do they prevent fuel loss through outgassing through the plastic. I know the vaporguard hose I plan on using has a liner to prevent the small seepage of fuel through the hose, they claim a vehicle driving daily can lose as much as 4 gallons of gas through seepage through traditional hoses over 1 year but if I do something like this I could get those push on quick disconnect fittings and can save the AN quick disconnect fittings for another project. Thats the big thing I hate about the AN quick disconnect fittings is that you have the quick disconnect then you have to have the female hose end to screw onto the quick disconnect which makes them bulky and excessively long. Youd think they would make a quick disconnect hose end and do away with the whole -6 male end.

But it will still be a while though, once I get my short block I still have to send my DSII distributor out to have it recurved, I wanted to be as precise as possible so I am going to wait till I get precise measurements and I am glad cause I was banking on a 0.030" over 302 but the photos my builder sent me shows its actually 0.040", sure its not much but with a 0.011" deck height guestimate it bumps compression from 9.1:1 to 9.17:1 which I know isnt a whole lot but its also based around a guestimate for deck height which I think might be closer to zero deck based off the photos I received which would drastically changed my compression to more around 9.5:1 to 9.7:1. I also still have to figure what push rod length I need as well while my distributor is off being recurved. I also need to ship my hedman shorty street headers to Cradin Industiries out in Austin to be ceramic coated. Still havent decided on a color and may wait to do that till after I get the engine painted to make my final decision. I also still need to get the prebent 3/8" stainless steel fuel line for the frame from inline tube, I still got to get the 85/86 fuel tank, the fuel pump, and the sending unit. But stuff like that I will get later when I am at the point of fixing to pull my old engine that way I can pull the fuel tank and hardlines and route it all on the frame before the new engine is dropped in.

 

Ok well, you could try an experiment. The DS II module uses an analogue input signal to trigger the coil It looks like the MSD does box also. Now there is a TFI module that uses an analogue input signal to trigger. You could pick one of these up they are super cheap like under $5 cheap on rock auto. And use this as a test rig with the DS II Dist and the sniper EFI. If this module works with the sniper the DS II Module will. The TFI-I is just a DS II module shrunk using TFI tech.
If you wanna go this route let me know I will post the particulars to rig this guy up.

Also there is NO crank retard on the blue DS II modules.

Not sure where this myth got started as there are only two DS modules with crank retard the DS I modules and the white strain relife DS II Modules. If the Blue DS II models had crank retard Ford never would have had to build the white modules.

Also, the sniper would have no idea if the DS module manipulating the ignition timing, for the sniper to know it would require feedback from the DS module to the sniper. (IE coil neg)

As for the fuel line look to the nylon braided PTFE it is resistant to everything and will last forever, once your truck has turned to a pile of dust the PTFE lines will still be there...

Ideally, your dist will need to be curved on your engine to your engine on the dyno either engine or chassis with the fuel you will be using. And if you are towing you will need a cushion there to ensure you are not hammering the hell out of the pistons.

 

Interesting, everything I have read indicated all DSII modules had the crank retard feature and the strain relief determined auxiliary abilities such as the yellow strain relief has a third connector for use with a map sensor while the blue strain relief had no third connector for this feature. I dont know about the white how ever the only colors I personally know of is the yellow and blue.

"After 1977 Ford developed other ignition modules with white, brown or yellow wiring strain reliefs that have other features that are unneeded or even undesireable for retro-fitting breakerless ignition. I found in my experience with them that all of the other modules had 3 wiring harnesses. They are designed to work with input from sensors, such as knock sensors, altitude sensors, MAP sensors, etc, and they are designed to control spark timing based on those inputs, to compensate for knock, altitude, engine load, etc. Or they are designed to work in conjunction with Ford's early "EEC" engine management systems. Some of these modules were called DuraSpark II, others DuraSpark III, and beginning in 1981 there was also the "universal" module."

The above is what I read and it seems to fit along with my 1978 Ford shop manual I have for my '78 Mercury, my Yellow strain relief DSII has a third connector for use with a altitude sensor or map sensor. Mine actually has a map sensor and uses full time manifold vacuum which advances the ignition further for improved fuel economy. I will have to dig those shop manual out after work today and see if they go into detail for the white and brown strain reliefs to see what features those have but that same article stated all DSII modules had the start retard feature so I am only going by what I have seen. I will check my shop manual to see if there is more information in there about that.

On the recurving of the distributor, I am going to send it to Parkland Performance Auto Machine, its like $150 to recurve the distributor and it is recurved on a sun machine based off the engine specs and vehicle specs. He agreed that total mechanical advance with initial should be no more than 32* with the fast burn heart shaped chambers on my AFR heads. This is only being done as I dont want too much advance as the engine im building is using hypers and I dont need to risk piston damage due to knocking. For now I want to do it this way with an eventual upgrade to full on timing control via the sniper this way I can have the guy I will have tune my sniper put my truck on his dyno and tune the timing curve.

Ill also check out the PTFE line as well as a potential option.

 

None of the DS II modules EXCEPT the white strain relief had a crank retard. What they did do was adjust dwell during crank to accommodate the 12V the coil gets on crank NOT timing. The dwell was changed on the tail end so it did not affect ignition timing. Also there were no less than 7 different DS II ignition modules. Plus 2 SSI one DS I and one DS III module. I would take what your books says with a grain of salt and to quote "I found in my experience with them that all of the other modules had 3 wiring harnesses" see below one of those supposed other boxes that has 3 harnesses.
This is the module that has crank retard. I was part of the group that designed this box. NONE of the other DS II modules has crank retard and we designed it for a specific Canadian emissions (or should I say lack of emissions) application where we were running a very high initial. This was back when FMofC still had a fair amount of autonomy. Also, try to find one verified account from actual testing of the Blue DS II box retarding on crank. From the factory this was never a feature. The aftermarket boxes who knows what they do. But the original Ford blue boxes have NO crank retard.

And yup 32° total sound about right with modern chamber designs.