Thats the thing rebel_ford4x4 these folks who holler and scream just forget it its not important, don't have any values to stand upon. They are the folks that don't give rip what their kids do, they blame the teachers because their kids are failing, they blame everyone else, but don't take pride in their history

 

Are you inferring that those of us that do not live in the past, are non caring, prideless people that have no idea of how to raise a kid?

Most of us learn from the past rather than wallow in it. Move forward, not stagnate, living some fantasy life of my forefathers. I am proud of what my forefathers accomplished, survived, and amazed at how they endured, and now must try to carry on their mission, as it needs to be done for TODAY.

I do not see any reason to be "proud" of where I live geographically, but proud to be a part of the UNITED States of America, a land where most (obviously not all) people have come together with the desire to make it even greater. I do try to make my contribution to improving life in my area, I enjoy living where I live geographically, and enjoy sharing the beauty of it with people from elsewhere. Well, most people........

 

mudn69, what the heck are you talking about That doesn't even make sense.
What does telling people to "let things go" have to do with not having values?? These people want to move on and quit hashing over things that happened 140 years ago. They have values and pride, but they also know that life goes on. How do you figure that these are the people that "don't give a rip what their kids do?????" - How do you come up with a generalization like that?

People who bring up this discussion over and over and over and over just want to bicker about it to make themselves feel big. (Apparently, God forbade that these people actually admit they or their ancestors were wrong)


Rocking M- hmmm, I hadn't heard that before. In a discussion like this, people always seem to refer to the North as yankee. I learn something new everyday (actually, I don't)


Someone said in an earlier post that it is pathetic that this discussion is being argued about 139 years later-- that is so true. Like I said, be proud of your heritage, but don't be an ignorant person who is stuck arguing over the past when there are far far far far far more important things going on in the world. It is really quite sad that so many people think that they alone have the power or knowledge to change the world's opinion on something 140 years old. I honestly believe that people who waste their energy on this subject when they could be working on current problems (problems that actually effect the world; unlike a 140 year old war) are a disgrace to human kind.

 

Seifferlein

"(Apparently, God forbade that these people actually admit they or their ancestors were wrong) "

That is your opinion that they were wrong, that is what this whole debate is over, you think it their independence was wrong, I don't so you yourself make rash generalizations like this and then tell people

"but don't be an ignorant person who is stuck arguing over the past when there are far far far far far more important things going on in the world"

It must be nice to be a hypocrite, say stop arguing and then tell the south that they were wrong. Hmmmm........ you just lost a valued part of your arguement.

 

Ah yes, things worked out just as I planned. I knew you would assume that I was speaking about the south. If you will take a moment to read all of my posts I am entirely objective on this matter. I have not said WHO was wrong or WHO was right. I NEVER defined the words they/them/you/etc. I was speaking to both the north AND the south people. ONLY YOU assumed that I was saying that the south was wrong. HMMMMMM.... now why did you assume that? What made to jump to that conclusion? Is there something in the back of your mind that you are afraid to admit? It is a know FACT that people who make snap judgements (jump to conclusions like you just did) have something in there subconscious mind that they refuse to admit but honestly believe is right.
HMMMMM... you just stuck your foot in your mouth.
FYI- I believe that the Confederate states had very good reason to secede. However, I am glad that they didn't win the war and everyone was able to come together again under more equal rights. I am not an overly proud "yankee" who is too afraid to admit that he originated from an area where the ancestors were wrong. Seems to me that you need to do likewise.

 

I'd heard it was Dutch, but it did start as an insult.

Hmm, kinda like "Redneck"......

 

Seifferlein
Again, I say to you, I believe that my ancestors were right in their cause. It seems to me that you sit at you little computer and think of ways to try and trick people into making assumptions. I was right in the assumption that you tend to support the north. Cause no self respecting Southern Man would sit here and argue over words like you are trying to do. Whether you think that your ancestors were wrong in their cause is up to you, being they were northern. Now what I believe my ancestors did was a just cause. So why should I admitt that my ancestors were wrong, when I don't believe that.

 

I NEVER SAID THAT YOU OR ANYONE WAS WRONG OR THAT YOU SHOULD ADMIT IT. My point of that quote that you seem to be stuck on ( "Aparently, God forbade...") is that one side has to give in order to solve this arguement--- and if you will think logically for a moment, you will come to the conclusion that neither side is going to give because neither side was/is entirely right. They both had there extremely idiotic, moronic, absolutely retarded faults. Which should make you realize that this neverending north/south arguement is one of the stupidest, most ignorant arguements of all time.

What you are doing is turning MY arguement into what this thread was originally about --- don't do that. MY arguement is that people who argue over this north/south garbage are being stupid. YOU WILL NEVER CONVINCE ANYONE THAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE THE CORRECT BELIEFS. NEVER NEVER

"Cause no self respecting Southern Man would sit here and argue over words like you are trying to do."-- Where do you keep getting this stuff from? Are you trying to start some new form of segregation in the United States. Should we all start talking in your biased voice so that the separation of the north and south people can be more formal and out in the open.


"It seems to me that you sit at you little computer and think of ways to try and trick people into making assumptions."--- OOOHHH, I see. I "tricked" you into your assumption that I was speaking bad about the south. You didn't come up with that on your own. Yeah, right. I always come into futile arguements with an objective point of view so that I can show the arguers that the arguement is futile. I never even slightly indicated that I was speaking bad about the south or the north--- you made that up purely on your own. And it is really quite sad if you can't see that because it probably means that you have something you won't come to grips with.

"I was right in the assumption that you tend to support the north."--- When did I ever say that I support the north??? I said absolutely nothing to that effect. I HAVE BEEN ENTIRELY UN-BIASED THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE THREAD. Did you neglect to read the end of my last post. Where on God's green earth do you get your "assumptions?"

"Whether you think that your ancestors were wrong in their cause is up to you, being they were northern. Now what I believe my ancestors did was a just cause."--- This statement makes me so mad. It shows me that you fail to realize that, in one respect, you and I are no different. Just because you were raised in the south doesn't mean that your opinion of the south's HISTORY is any more valid. I have all the facts and unbiased information about the Civil War that I need to make my judgement (if I wanted to) of who was right and who was wrong. Get the idea out of your head that you are a confederate or some sort of hard-core southerner that can somehow simpathize with the old south because you can't. You aren't one of them. You don't have any better of an idea of what life was like in the old south than I do. You have no right to claim that because you were raised in the south you were born with God given southern knowledge about the south during the Civil War. Don't you see the lack of logic in your statement??? I would laugh and laugh and laugh so very hard if you were to find out that you have some "yankee" blood in you. What would the world be coming to, first the darkening of America and now the intermixing of the north and south- grow up.

I will gaurantee you that some of your statements are what make people so mad. You CREATE biased segregated ideas and constantly present them to everyone. Your statements contain underlying biases that you won't just come out and say. You are trying to keep the northern and southern seperation alive. All of your generalized "I am better than you city slicker yankee boys cause I'm from the south" comments are what rile up anger in people and cause them to come up with their own stupid statements.

 

You know Seifferlein,

It was not until I started reading your posts that I became agitated.

My family has spent many generations in the (deep) South, I can state factually and unequivocally - you are basing your position on little actual knowledge, and even less first hand experience.

I do not believe that this is an appropriate thing to do.
Respectfully.

 

....Getting back to the start of this thread, I`m a Ford man who was and is born and bred in the South. My family farmed cotton in Alabama up until the conclusion of the war. A certain "Act" called "Reconstruction" forfieted the land and it`s inhabitants over to some Pissants up in Boston. Migrated to Marrianna, Fl. until the Hurricane of `26, then migrated to Miami, Fl. where the family has thrived ever since. My thoughts on that war and all others can be uttered with the timeless phrase;
War is hell.....
My grandpa (a vet) once told me; When it`s on, do your duty, when it ain`t, forget about it, theres just too much other stuff to fret about.

 

"My grandpa (a vet) once told me; When it`s on, do your duty, when it ain`t, forget about it, theres just too much other stuff to fret about."

Weren't no Southerner ever said it was over. 'sept one that had a yankee pistol pointed at him at the time.

Not *my* position; but one you can still hear echoed very frequently South of the Mason-Dixon line.

. . now that is why the "friction" still exists!

FWIW.

 

We're not starting a fight here are we.....i don't like dealing with people who can't get along....

 

I sure hope not, Ryan. I assure you that is not my intention.

 

"My family has spent many generations in the (deep) South, I can state factually and unequivocally."
Okay, so you have family that has seen the war. YOU have heard the story from someone who heard the story from someone who heard the story from someone who heard the story etc. etc etc.
Just like you, I have heard plenty of the story from people who have long family history in the south. The only things that ANYONE has ever heard are stories. Tell me VERY SPECIFICALLY how you can state factually or unequivically anymore than I. The only thing you or I have heard (we have not actually seen anything) is a history lesson.

"you are basing your position on little actual knowledge, and even less first hand experience."--- Oh, really? Did I tell you that? Or are you just another person that likes to assume things so that your arguement fits? If not, then tell me how you made that wonderous conclusion. Oh, and don't use the phrase "first hand experience" like YOU have first hand experience. All of the people who had first hand experience are dead. Everyone left in the US has the same amount of experience on this matter for both the south or the north. The feelings that are presented in the US now (the hate or seperation between the north and the south) are purely false (or based on idioticy) because NOONE in the world today has persecuted the south or the north. So, anyone who looks at where the mason dixon line was and says they hate or have biased feelings toward the other side is being foolish, because that line no longer seperates anything. There is noone left to hate. We are all mixed together and there is no longer any reason to keep the seperation going because we are all under the same rights.

None of this changes the fact that it is still childish to argue over and over about this matter. (which has been my only point throughout this entire thread) And for all you people who take that statement and change it into, "Let's drop this matter because it isn't important and I have no values," STOP IT. Like I have said before, have your respect/pride for your ancestors but quit bickering over it like someday you will have everyone convinced that you are right.

 

Seiff,,, let me begin by saying that I agree with you whole-heartedly. Assumption is one of the evils of words on a screen. Being the sarcastic (*^&^%^% that I am,, I love your use of it, but please keep in mind that not all here will see it as such. Your arguments are nothing but valid,, but your tone needs dulling. I know it is unfortunate, but that really is the only way I've found of keeping these discussions from becoming personal attacks. The myopic views I have come across here are unpalatable, to say the least. But these same views have their own value and still deserve the equal respect. I would be completely lying if I said I didn't thoroughly enjoy your posts, but try to keep in mind the general "feel" of civility that is aspired to on such volatile subject content. You state your points clearly and well-defined,,,, after the fact. Baiting does none of us any good to keep this in that civility. Of course it shows the lack of true insight, but that is apparent anyway. No need to rub it in,,, here anyway . I would hate to see this become personal and someone(s) losing posting power over a war that did indeed end nearly 150 years ago. Views should and need to be stated as such,, without demeaning of other's. Do I think of myself as a Northerner? No. Do I think of MUDN69 as a Southerner? No. I think of us as AMERICANS. Pure and simple. Of course it's ridiculous to me that this topic was even brought up in this day and age,, what's the import? Where is the social pertinence? Is there another Civil War in the plans that I am not privy to? As far as those that state "the South will rise again,,," ,,,, when has it fallen by the wayside in the last fifty years, let alone hundred? I don't recall hearing that any state below a Line that does not even exist anymore, except in the mind of those that keep it alive, being thrown out of the UNITED States. Or even oppressed because of their global positioning and geographical orientation. Hell, I'd go as far to say they have equal if not more power than most of the "northern" states at this juncture of our political arena. What again are the top three states candidates try to win? Texas (southern), Florida (southern) and California (different universe). Wherein lies the answer?? To Me,, respect for each and every opinion here AND there. And that's my $.02 and I expect at least a nickel in change