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Wire Issues 1967 F250

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Old Apr 12, 2021 | 03:13 AM
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Wire Issues 1967 F250

I bought this truck and recently got the engine to fire up. Only way I could do so was by directly running a wire from the starter to the battery. I followed the wires that I assume are the ones I have dangling to the side of the starter into the cab. There is a dark blue wire that looks like it's suppose to connect to something, but I couldn't find another one like it... The actual wire that connect to the starter seems to be that red one with the white stripe but everything connected to that seems fine. Does anyone know what that dark blue wire is for? Also is it a possibility to make some sort of toggle switch maybe instead? Appreciate the help thanks!


 
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Old Apr 12, 2021 | 07:20 AM
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Go over to fordification.com and look at the wiring diagram. You will probably have to “ring out” wires from inside the cab to their final destination, as it looks like someone spliced in different color wires.

For the starter, there should only be one big cable on it. The starter gets its power from the solenoid on the right fender well. That solenoid gets tripped by the ignition key in the start position.

If you don’t have a 1 wire starter, then the truck has been modified. Still, not that hard to figure out.
 
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Old Apr 12, 2021 | 02:14 PM
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What cbrown said. But while you're at it, might as well take a few pics of the passenger side so we can see the starter and it's wiring.
The original wire color is Red w/blue stripe and runs from the ignition switch to the starter relay/solenoid on the passenger inner fender. Not sure about your year, and if it's got the wiring for a neutral safety switch for an automatic trans or not. But if so, it's likely a troublesome little fellow lower down on the steering column, but still inside the cab. Does your truck have a manual, or auto trans?

Either way, check out the steering column for a switch activated by any the column linkage (not applicable with a floor shift I would not think) and see if any Red w/blue wires are running through it.
Another check you can make regarding just where the power is missing, is to jumper the battery to the small "S" post on the starter relay (trans in neutral or park of course!) and see if the starter spins then. Or did you already try that?
What that test does is let you know whether the starter relay and cables and starter are good (some of which you already know) and that there is just no signal to the relay when the key is in START mode.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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Old Apr 12, 2021 | 04:04 PM
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I appreciate all the help so far. I have been looking at the diagrams and trying to figure out what connects to what. I followed the red w/ blue stripe wire and you can see there’s a connector that connects to something... I’ve attached some pictures of how I have the starter wired I believe that’s correct but I shall continue to figure this out :/ I also attached some extra images of my current wire set up. Thanks!
(also I do plan on getting a new wire harness eventually I just don’t have the money to do so rn and want to get this thing driving haha)










 
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Old Apr 12, 2021 | 07:48 PM
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Good pics, thanks. Some are too close for me to recognize exactly where they are in the world (I'm more familiar with the later year trucks) but I can see the individual parts and recognize most of them.

The first image is of the voltage regulator, and that one errant Yellow wire appears to be the one where there used to be a radio noise suppressor/choke/capacitor/condenser thingy. Good to have to keep the charging system from creating too much radio noise, but not 100% necessary for running the truck.
At least that's what it looks like from here.

The starter relay is interesting. Lots of crowding of the wires, but it appears that the Brown wire is on the left terminal (closest to the battery) and the Red w/blue wire is towards the starter. Is this correct? If so, it's at least one reason your starter won't spin. But also if that's the case then the starter should crank every time you turn the key on. But that might be explained away by other circumstances.
As far as I know, ever Ford starter relay puts the "S" post (for "start" or "switch" or whatever) closest to the battery cable (left side when viewed facing the small terminals with the larger part of the relay with the bracket facing up. Your image would then be looking down from the "top" of the relay) and is usually marked with an "S" molded into the resin. Since yours is made in the USA it's likely an original or at least an older replacement. Meaning it should be wired as I described.
So check that out and make sure that the Red w/blue wire is on the S terminal.

The reason all that might be a moot point is that if you put the Brown wire where the Red w/blue wire should be, your engine should crank every time you turn the key to the ON position. That's because the Brown "I" wire (for "ignition") is connected to the ignition coil's positive wire at the connector near the firewall. So unless that wire is broken or cut, or your starter relay has failed (any of those can happen) yours is probably connected properly and I just am not seeing it in the pics.

The little rectangular metal doo-dad bolted to the starter relay's mount should be the horn relay. If it's got a 3-wire connector on it with at least one larger Yellow wire, then that's what it is. The other wires are probably some combination of Yellow w/green and Blue w/yellow or something like that.

The wires under the dash look reasonably intact, in spite of the spaghetti factory appearance under there. Kind of normal unfortunately!
In the pic under the dash with the large oval shaped hole above the harness, do you see that pinkish/brownish wire with the heat resistant tar coated jacket/sleeve just poking out of the harness tape? That's your ignition coil's resistor wire. It gets very hot doing it's job, which is why it's wrapped in a heat barrier sleeving. In some Ford vehicles they actually ran that wire outside of the rest of the harness to keep the heat away from the other wires and probably to let it breathe better and stay cooler.
If you know electrical you've probably heard that "heat is resistance" and "resistance is heat" as well as the longer the conductor, the more resistance it has to the flow of electricity. Our resistor wires are extra long and extra small, but with high temperature ratings of the conductor, the plastic covering, and the outer wrapping. If you check it with just a volt-meter and no load, you'll see 12v or so with the key ON. If you check it again with a load applied (the meter has very little if any real load, but the ignition does) then the voltage will get lower and lower as the heat rises until it reaches a balance point of somewhat less than 12v. Probably 8v or 9v, but I don't know the math so could be off on that.

A couple of things that would be a good idea at this stage in the game:
1. First would be to disconnect the battery (negative wire only is sufficient) and unbolt the starter relay from the fender. Wire brush the contact points and clean or replace the bolts if they're rusty. Then put it back together. This is just to make sure that it's getting a good ground connection to the body.
2. Next would be to make sure that your negative battery cable has a secondary wire that goes to the body. Your main cable goes to the engine block itself of course, but a secondary ground to the body is important for the proper function of a lot of things.
3. As with any old vehicle like ours, with glass fuses, take the time while the battery is disconnected and remove all the fuses from the panel. Clean them and their contact points in the panel, then put them back in. If any of the fuses are rusty, replace them. If any of the contact points are rusty, clean them up the best you can. When the fuses go back in they will have a better connection than before, and you'll gain some power at some important points in the system.

Let us know how those two small wires are connected to the starter relay, and whether or not you see an "S" and an "I" molded into the resin/Bakelite body of the relay.

Paul
 
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Old Apr 12, 2021 | 07:56 PM
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Oh, and since the horn relay and the voltage regulator both ground through their cases and attaching bolts, it's a good idea to clean and tidy up those attaching points too, while you have the battery disconnected.
It does not harm relays to be disconnected from ground while the battery is connected, but it can harm a voltage regulator. So it's just good practice to mess with this kind of stuff only while the battery is disconnected.

And speaking of relays... That second pic under the dash (pic #5 I believe?) looks either like a relay plug that's not being used, or even more likely just an extra connector for an accessory that your truck did not come with.
You'll find a lot of vehicles that come with unused connectors because the manufacturer would use the same harness over many vehicles, and if you did not order for example roof top clearance lamps, or perhaps a courtesy lamp option, you will have empty connectors.
Judging by the odd terminal type thing inserted into the bottom of it, someone was trying to take power from this accessory plug for some other purpose.
You can find those wire colors in your diagrams to see what it's for. You can also test it with a volt-meter to find out which wires have power and when. There are different "when's" when it comes to wiring too. Some are hot all the time, some only with the key in the ON position, some in both ON and ACC. And then some only hot when something else is switched, such as a headlight switch or similar.

having fun yet?

Paul
 
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Old Apr 13, 2021 | 02:27 PM
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Wow! Thanks for the information I am currently following your advice and will keep everyone updated!
 
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Old Apr 13, 2021 | 07:30 PM
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Update

So I happened to have a new starter solenoid I got a while back and replaced the solenoid. Now it’s a bit more clear on what’s where. The red/white striped wire is in fact on the ‘s’ side. I basically did everything except add another ground to the battery terminal wire as I’m not sure what to do there. It runs with that jumper wire to the starter but not with any other wire and the only other wire there that has the proper connection is that red/white striped wire. I could be wrong here but am I missing a wire? In the diagrams it says that wire is for the temp gauge... I also have concluded that that blue wire that’s not connected is a ground wire for something but still have yet to figure out where it attached since I think the previous owner spliced something at some point Also, I am not great with wiring but worse comes to worse is it possible to just run a wire from the battery to the cab of the truck, then to the starter? This would only be temporary but I’m not sure of the implications of doing it... Again thanks for all the help!






 
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Old Apr 15, 2021 | 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by te47823
So I happened to have a new starter solenoid I got a while back and replaced the solenoid.
That can be a good thing, but it also means you have to test this one too, so you know for a fact that it's not part of the problem. Likely it's good, as I can see it's got the good ole' "Made in the USA" stamp of approval.
But it pays to be sure. Trust, but verify...
The wire colors look to be pretty faded. If you look sideways, cross your eyes and squint just right, you can see how that might have once been Red w/blue. Sure doesn't look like it, but we've sure seen some odd colors after these many years.

Originally Posted by te47823
I basically did everything except add another ground to the battery terminal wire as I’m not sure what to do there.
Easy peasy. You can make your own out of some 10ga wire with a couple of eyelets on the ends. One end fits under the nut on the battery lug and the other fill fit under any bolt you choose. A fender bolt is a good one, as is one of the bolts that holds the starter relay in place. The voltage regulator is another good one on some year models, but since yours is earlier and the regulator mounted to the core support, it's just a longer run than necessary. However, it never hurts to have the core support well grounded, as that's where the headlights, running lights and (obviously) the voltage regulator get their circuit grounds.

Originally Posted by te47823
It runs with that jumper wire to the starter but not with any other wire and the only other wire there that has the proper connection is that red/white striped wire.
Great pics by the way. Can you also get one of the starter itself? Just so we know what you're having to deal with.
Describe the jumper wire too please. Are you running a battery cable size wire direct to the starter? Or are you using a small gauge wire to a small terminal on the starter? I think you said before, but just need some further clarification. Thanks.

And speaking of jumper wires, did you test the starter relay with a wire from the battery positive direct to the S post?
Or easier than making another jumper wire, simply use a tool of some kind to literally touch the large battery side terminal on the relay to the small S terminal. Some will use a screw-driver, others will use plier jaws or handles, but all you need to do is touch the battery cable to the small "S" post. If it fails to click, then your relay/solenoid is bad, or the ground connection to the body is insufficient.
If it gives a healthy click when you touch them, then the starter should spin as well.

Originally Posted by te47823
I could be wrong here but am I missing a wire? In the diagrams it says that wire is for the temp gauge.
Correct that the only four wires that I know of that have those 90° push-on connectors are for oil pressure, water temperature, and the two on the starter relay's small posts. But it looks like you have all that you need there, with the one wire on the S and the other on the I posts.
Have you tested the S wire with a volt-meter yet? You need to find out if you're getting 12v to that wire with the key in the START position. Just to narrow things down a bit more.

Originally Posted by te47823
I also have concluded that that blue wire that’s not connected is a ground wire for something but still have yet to figure out where it attached since I think the previous owner spliced something at some point
Very likely after all these years. A Blue wire is not a ground at least as far as Ford factory colors go, but it certainly could be when it's added by someone that just happens to have some extra Blue wire to play with.

Originally Posted by te47823
Also, I am not great with wiring but worse comes to worse is it possible to just run a wire from the battery to the cab of the truck, then to the starter? This would only be temporary but I’m not sure of the implications of doing it.
Not really feasible, but certainly doable if you work at it. The problem is distance and load. You would literally need a battery cable size wire of an even larger gauge than what would have been normal.
But again, if your starter has the small wire from a piggy-backed solenoid, then yes a temporary switch is eminently doable with regular size wires. Say 14ga or if needed a 12ga wire.

Have you traced that black wire with the ring terminal next to the distributor to see where it comes from?
Oh, and get that coil wire off of the throttle linkage! Wires of any kind, especially stationary mounted should never touch, cross-over or even lie next to something that moves. Always comes back to bite you in the real world.[/QUOTE]
 
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