Heat, ignition modules and distributor
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Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 529
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From: Houston
Heat, ignition modules and distributor
Howdy all,
Maggie has a miss as she warms up. Cold, off choke and high idle, she purrs. As she warms, she picks up a miss. It isn't bad, but it is not right. She has new plugs, coil, wires, good carb, and is timed 10-12 btdc depending in the angle from which I view the mark.
In my motorcycle days, I remember the sign of a failing rectifier is hard starting when hot. I'm wondering if heat has the same effect on the magic, silver, ignition box.
Also, I'm wondering if the distributor is worn out. It has some play in/out, left and right, but I don't know how much is acceptable.
I know the parts are cheap and will replace all that is needed, but I'm not one to throw parts at the problem. Also, I don't know which parts are quality and which are made of rich, Corinthian Chinesium.
Thanks
Maggie has a miss as she warms up. Cold, off choke and high idle, she purrs. As she warms, she picks up a miss. It isn't bad, but it is not right. She has new plugs, coil, wires, good carb, and is timed 10-12 btdc depending in the angle from which I view the mark.
In my motorcycle days, I remember the sign of a failing rectifier is hard starting when hot. I'm wondering if heat has the same effect on the magic, silver, ignition box.
Also, I'm wondering if the distributor is worn out. It has some play in/out, left and right, but I don't know how much is acceptable.
I know the parts are cheap and will replace all that is needed, but I'm not one to throw parts at the problem. Also, I don't know which parts are quality and which are made of rich, Corinthian Chinesium.
Thanks
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Howdy all,
Maggie has a miss as she warms up. Cold, off choke and high idle, she purrs. As she warms, she picks up a miss. It isn't bad, but it is not right. She has new plugs, coil, wires, good carb, and is timed 10-12 btdc depending in the angle from which I view the mark.
In my motorcycle days, I remember the sign of a failing rectifier is hard starting when hot. I'm wondering if heat has the same effect on the magic, silver, ignition box.
Also, I'm wondering if the distributor is worn out. It has some play in/out, left and right, but I don't know how much is acceptable.
I know the parts are cheap and will replace all that is needed, but I'm not one to throw parts at the problem. Also, I don't know which parts are quality and which are made of rich, Corinthian Chinesium.
Thanks
Maggie has a miss as she warms up. Cold, off choke and high idle, she purrs. As she warms, she picks up a miss. It isn't bad, but it is not right. She has new plugs, coil, wires, good carb, and is timed 10-12 btdc depending in the angle from which I view the mark.
In my motorcycle days, I remember the sign of a failing rectifier is hard starting when hot. I'm wondering if heat has the same effect on the magic, silver, ignition box.
Also, I'm wondering if the distributor is worn out. It has some play in/out, left and right, but I don't know how much is acceptable.
I know the parts are cheap and will replace all that is needed, but I'm not one to throw parts at the problem. Also, I don't know which parts are quality and which are made of rich, Corinthian Chinesium.
Thanks
If the dist has some slop that should be replaced the DSII system will handle some slop in the distributor but once it gets to be excessive it will start to spark scatter and you will pick up a miss.
I would just buy a rebuilt Autoline unit then no worries about chinesium or quality.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,667
Likes: 1,159
From: Tolland, CT
I have also had a ignition module do the same thing in a Honda years ago. it would just stop working until the engine cooled down. It was intermitted. Had the trusted mechanic work and the car, I remember he told me it took 45 minutes of idling for the module to fail. The car had over 170,000 miles or so. So he replaced the module in the dizzy, I think the part was $67.00. A few month's later the coil went out and took the module with it. At that time the coil was $90, plus the module. A few month's later the dizzy began to have play and began to have this brown powder inside it.
At that time I got a reman dizzy ($150.00) that came with a new coil and module. If I would have just replaced the Dizzy at the first sign of trouble I could have saved a bunch of money and headaches.
At that time I got a reman dizzy ($150.00) that came with a new coil and module. If I would have just replaced the Dizzy at the first sign of trouble I could have saved a bunch of money and headaches.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
I have also had a ignition module do the same thing in a Honda years ago. it would just stop working until the engine cooled down. It was intermitted. Had the trusted mechanic work and the car, I remember he told me it took 45 minutes of idling for the module to fail. The car had over 170,000 miles or so. So he replaced the module in the dizzy, I think the part was $67.00. A few month's later the coil went out and took the module with it. At that time the coil was $90, plus the module. A few month's later the dizzy began to have play and began to have this brown powder inside it.
At that time I got a reman dizzy ($150.00) that came with a new coil and module. If I would have just replaced the Dizzy at the first sign of trouble I could have saved a bunch of money and headaches.
At that time I got a reman dizzy ($150.00) that came with a new coil and module. If I would have just replaced the Dizzy at the first sign of trouble I could have saved a bunch of money and headaches.
Nice antidote but the Ford Dura Spark system and the Honda Electronic basically have nothing in common. The Honda system is a rework of the GM HEI set up. So it is almost impossible to connect failures between the 2 systems as their operation is totally diffent from each other.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,174
Likes: 1,174
Careful with your apples to oranges comparison. Fast idle is going to mask all but the most severe misfires. The problem may still be present, but you can't necessarily notice it until the idle speed drops.
If concerned underhood heat may be a contributing factor, here are some low-cost ideas that may help.
Relocate the coil to a cooler location:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tion-coil.html
Consider a heat shield for the Duraspark module:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ii-module.html
However, heat may not be much of an issue in your situation, if you're getting the fault so after engine start, midway through the warm-up cycle. I'd expect a heat-related problem to be more prominent when underhood temperatures are high, such as pulling a heavy load up a long steep grade on a hot day.
If concerned underhood heat may be a contributing factor, here are some low-cost ideas that may help.
Relocate the coil to a cooler location:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tion-coil.html
Consider a heat shield for the Duraspark module:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ii-module.html
However, heat may not be much of an issue in your situation, if you're getting the fault so after engine start, midway through the warm-up cycle. I'd expect a heat-related problem to be more prominent when underhood temperatures are high, such as pulling a heavy load up a long steep grade on a hot day.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Temp on a good module will have no effect on it's operation, If heat is affecting a module replace it. The same applies to the coil.
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Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Houston
I meant to say when the choke is open and the idle is OFF high (normal idle)
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More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Houston
I swapped in the new distributor. I found the failure point of the old one: the vacuum advance plate and linkage were worn allowing the coil pickup to wobble. While I didn't see any witness Mark's from contacting the rotor shaft, the pickup was loose enough for contact. Retimed it, jumped on and off the highway a few times, and no missing so far. Will go back and tune from scratch to insure nothing else is going on. As she is now, the old gal will pin me to the seat in a 0 to 60 run. Well, she pins me as much as the half dozen can.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
I swapped in the new distributor. I found the failure point of the old one: the vacuum advance plate and linkage were worn allowing the coil pickup to wobble. While I didn't see any witness Mark's from contacting the rotor shaft, the pickup was loose enough for contact. Retimed it, jumped on and off the highway a few times, and no missing so far. Will go back and tune from scratch to insure nothing else is going on. As she is now, the old gal will pin me to the seat in a 0 to 60 run. Well, she pins me as much as the half dozen can.
Glad to hear you got it fixed and we were able to pin it on the first go.
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Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Houston
Being a glutton for punishment, I'll be looking at a Pontiac Astre this weekend.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Not many of those girls left around heck not many were made. Originally they were a GM Canada only model that was picked up by GM Corporate for the US in 75. If it's a 77 it will have the bulletproof Pontiac 2.5 instead of the POS vega 2.3.
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Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Houston
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
That is a very rare beast, IIRC there were literally only a handful of Formulas made, There were not many Pontiac Astre's made period but the Formulas were super rare. It is one of the rarer sport trim editions from the 70's. and that car has some investment potential. That car is rare enough that a to factory resto is about the only option.
If you pick it up you will have to post pics. It;s always cool to see some of the forgotten stuff from the 70's that was super cool in the era, but now has been mostly forgotten.. I have not seen a Pontiac Astre in person since the late 80's