Long time Cummins fan and just left deposit on F450. Picking it up Sunday. Excited but just had a very good friend (who has a 2016 wrecker who's pump dropped out at 29k miles that was denied warranty) tell me to stay far away from Fords. Getting cold feet.

What is the failure rate of CP4's? Wondering if this is a case of seeing a high number of failures on forum boards and assuming they are all failing, or will fail, or are the true percent of failures very small when considering the total number of motors on the road?

Although my purchase is pretty much a done deal so maybe this is more of a 'make me feel good' thread. However, until I sign on the dotted line I guess anything can happen from now until Sunday when I pick up the truck. I really like some of the features of the F450 over Ram 3500 but getting cold feet. Been a Ram fan for years as I've had an 04, 13, 14 and 19 so this is a huge step.

 

The failure rate must be quite low, but the cost is easily >$10K if it does go. I use a lubricant additive, but I'm not sure if it's really any help. I've heard very few stories of failures on 2017+ super duties. It's not significant enough to worry about in my opinion. Sorry I don't have hard data for you. Maybe someone here does.

 

Well I can give some insight if it helps, since 2011 I have had 800 or so 6.7 trucks come through my fleet. Out of that I believe we have done about 80 fuel system replacements. Now out of that less than 50 were true failures without user error. The rest were either from DEF or water contamination. We fixed the water contamination issues a decade ago and now the DEF tanks are inaccessible to the drivers so it has further lowered the issues. Not sure why but we had a surge of failures from 16-17 trucks. Have only had 1 on a 2020+ and that was definitely a failure because the truck didn't make it off the first tank of fuel.

 

Now that is good data. Thank you!

 

While I am not readily involved with working on ram trucks it does appear the CP4 issues also impact that platform. Unsure of the real numbers and I haven't heard anything about the new Delphi pump on the duramax. Seems the Duramax is still having injector issues.

 

For the last failure you mention (2020 truck), did Ford make good on the repairs?

 

Ram switched back to cp3 on 2021 after using the cp4 for only 2 years (2019 and 2020).

 

Well that's how much I pay attention to that platform. Good to hear the CP3 is a solid workhorse.

 

many factors are involved in the failure rate some examples

cup that holds the bearing rotates and results in parts grinding with metal contaminating the fuel system. the cup is not keyed so under certain circumstances it can rotate. when it does rotate...not even pure oil will prevent damage...so its an urban legend that fuel lube additives will protect from this kind of failure.

various conditions can occur that will result in dry functioning of the pump and under a dry function senerio the bearing will grind and generate particles. some examples...lower pump failure , clogging of filters due to jelling/waxing related to cold. ford does not have a mechanism that prevents start attempts if there is zero fuel pressure.

water , DEF, gas , etc in the fuel...basically operator controlled . the water separator does not work and will not prevent catastrophic damage against fuel system failure.

ford is very good at invalidating fuel system related warranty claims and most folks that get some releif, do so thru comprehensive coverage aspect of their auto policy if in fact it is established that water was in the fuel.

there is a device called a DPK that will separate the fuel that feeds the injectors and the fuel that lubes the cp4 bearings. with this device the cost of a repair attributed to CP4 failure can be reduced and the effectiveness varies across product offerings.

much of the failure root cause can be attributed to cold and condensation...so be careful about a disproportionate amount of folks who live in warm climates and testify they never had a problem, dont know of anyone who had a problem, and do not believe this is a real problem.

 

Nobody but Ford knows for Ford. And nobody but Bosch knows overall for their pump. If these pumps were the Achilles Heel some make them out to be, you would be seeing page after page of pump failures. The Internet is great about being a forum for complaints and tales of woe. But there are only a handful of failure threads. That's not exactly a point of proof, but you can find more threads on leaking valve stems on duallys.

Here's something you should know about the CP4 pump in particular; Millions are in use by almost every automaker. Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi are big users. Diesel is the primary fuel in Europe. You have to be pragmatic about what you might hear about the pump and look to the evidence you can see and draw rational conclusions. Again, not a lot of threads here on failure. And many manufacturers are now and have been using that pump for some years now. You have to ask yourself if it was that fragile, why would manufacturers continue to use it? Can they afford to lose reputation over an inherently flawed pump? I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

 

I'm truck shopping as well. I've also been following the CP4 saga for some time.
While those of us outside Ford and Ram won't know the actual failure rate (e.g. percent of units sold or failure per 1,000 vehicle), based on anecdotal reports between the Ram and Ford groups, it seems like the Ram has a higher number of CP4 failures. Of course, there appears to be no shortage of Ford CP4 failures, but not as bad as Ram.

It's still quite concerning.

I recall reading a scenario where a guy's Ram truck failed. Had the truck towed to the dealership. Before he could get someone to tow the trailer from the seemingly safe area it was parked (not on the side of the road), it was stolen along with all of his quads and SxSs never to be found. Sure, insurance might cover that, too, but the consequences of failure can be far more than the $10+ grand it'll cost to repair and the fight with the manufacturer when they try and deny warranty coverage.

Makes me like my old Ram with a CP3 that much better, hence I'm in no rush to replace it.

 

I’ve never seen any reliable data. As mentioned, even if rare, it’s catastrophic in terms of cost.

My brother had a 2016 Duramax implode due to the CP4 with 45k miles on it. His was covered by warranty. I’d rather not deal with it.

Optilube XL or XPD is super easy and relatively inexpensive insurance.

 

One thing I haven’t yet figured out. When some component is truly giving trouble, the aftermarket is generally pretty quick to come up with a better item; and as far as I know, now one has built a substitute pump to replace the CP4. Yes, there are the bypass kits, which are probably a band-aid at best; but no retrofit to some kind of better pump.

 

Buy the truck and enjoy it.

 

Best reply in this thread.

All vehicle brands and models have some issues. But not every vehicle has one of those issues. Generally speaking, only a small percentage actually do (with some exceptions).

Drive and enjoy, and deal with the issue if it arises.