When the smoke clears (wrong term used here), you want a full SYN, not a blend. An extra zinc additive (not blended into the engine oil) is for cam break-in with strong valve springs. It has difficulty being mixing into oil as an additive only. There are specialty oils if you feel the need.

Why diesel rated oil?

 

The diesel rated oils have much much better additive packages due to the higher sheer they experience. This typically means higher zinc and phosphorus in levels closer to the obsolete SF to SH grades that these engines should have. Also NOT a good idea to default SN grade oils, many do not have the ZDDP or phosphorus needed for flat tappets. Many of speciality specific oils that has been talked about here have NO API rating/grading. Example Mobil 1's Formula M 5W-40 has NO API rating at all and just lists the Mercedes Specifications it meets which are the older 229.3 and 229.5 specs. These specifications apply to Diesel and Gasoline engines The Mobil Formula M has 1000PPM phosphorus and 1100PPM ZDDP. Levels that prevent it from being classified by any of the current API gradings.
Just as an FYI basically ALL the high-end European manufactures use 40 weight oils even in the newest vehicles. As they are not concerned with squeezing the last MPG out their vehicles but more concerned with engine longevity with the extra protection a 40 weight provides.

Also the need for running a mineral for break-in is a long-standing myth. This really is only an issue in engines running low piston ring seat pressures. Such as in race engines were they are looking to reduce parasitic friction loses. This is where the do not use syns during break-in started it has no relevance to engines running stock style piston rings. If anything this is the time to use a syn as the engine oil will be experiencing high levels of contaminants (organic and inorganic) and seeing much higher sheer as stuff wears in and high spots are knocked down.

 

I second what Matthew said. And to my knowledge, it also has something to do with cats. ZDDP hurts cats so it was cut down since vehicles were required to use them.


I like the discussion that is going here very much.

What would your recommendation on oil be for running for the ring break in time? The before mentioned Mobil oils?

Any thoughts on the Z Rod from Ams oil?

 

I have always changed the oil and filter after the first 20 minutes. It gets out all the assembly lube and any other metal filings that may have worn off.

I have also used mineral oil until about 2500 miles then change to synthetic. I have done the first few oil changes at 500 miles then at 1000 miles then at 2500 miles change over.


My DD is a turbo Subaru, I have run Amsoil 5w-40 European Classic in it since 2500 miles. That short block has over 140,000 miles and still has none of the normal Subaru piston slap or bearing noise. I sent a oil sample off to Blackstone Labs at around 9500 miles on the shortblock. They said to leave the oil in there for 2000 more miles in send in another sample. That engine see 21psi of boost on a regular basics. Amsoil is good stuff.

They have great customer service so call them or email them.


Like you knew, lot's of different thought's but there is overlap...

 

Everyone has their experiences and thoughts. If everyone has come to a similar conclusion on a few things, makes it pretty likely they work.
am looking for
The Ams oil stuff sure is expensive, but id rather spend more money on oil if that means that I keep my engine healthy. I still am looking for other oils that could fit the bill. Problem is that over here in Germany the mentioned oils are pretty hard to get. So a lot of searching and comparing is gonna be necessary.

 

I joined Amsoil as a Preferred member, I can place an online order and have a case in a few day's. I use it in three of my cars. I run there filters.

I justify the expense by not having to do as many oil changes. In my turbo cars, I'll go 7-8000 miles. In the NA car 15,000 miles is easy on Amsoil.

Again, Blackstone Labs will tell you. I know your in Europe so that might make things different...?

 

Quart of that Z rod Stuff is $14.50. Makes an oil change around 90 bucks in oil. Which I am okay with if that is what it takes.
I have not looked into an oil analyzing service in Germany. Will probably get into that soon.
As for now I am just gonna sift through a bunch of datasheets for some of the oils that would come into question.

 

In a stock build the Zrod is just money wasted. For a high-performance build running high valve spring pressures on a flat tappet cam, it would be good insurance to prevent a wiped lobe.

Since you are in the EU you have more options for Oil than we do. Seriously you do. Any 5W-40 meeting the Mercedes 228.31 Specifications will be more than adequate. And your selection there is far far greater than what we have here. Last time I checked there were like some 50 oils available in Europe that meets the Mercedes 228.31 specs which is the diesel specific specification.
Just as an FYI Rotella T6 5W-40 meets those Mercedes specs and is one of just 3 or 4 domestic oils here in North America that does.
You guys typically have access to higher quality off the shelf motor oils than we do on this side of the pond. Stuff here that would qualify as a speciality oil is just run of the mill there. But this is due to the higher oil specifications European and especially German manufacturers use. So for you pretty much any decent 5W-40 oil you can find there will be good. If you can find the specs for ZDDP levels, they should be no lower than 1000 PPM and the same for phosphorus.

 

Thank You very much for that information!
Now that you mention it pretty much all the oils I looked at have that specification.

I don't think my engine qualifies as high performance. Pretty mild comp cam grind, comp valve springs (They nearly have identical spring pressure.) T Meyer flat top pistons.

I am a little mind blown tbh. I'll take a look at some Datasheets in a bit and see what they say for that spec.

 

Just an edit, the Mercedes spec I was thinking about was the 228.31 spec. I Revised the post. The new spec is 229.3/229.51 the older spec of 228.31 is what T6 meets. The 228.31 is just the less cat-friendly version of the 229.3/229.51 spec, but either will work for ya.
I wish we had the selection of oils here that you guys get there it would make life so much easier.

 

Alright, I looked into the spec.
Thankfully Mercedes has a site where you can enter the spec and they will give you a list of all oils that they tested themselves and rated in that spec.
All of the ZDDP contents float around the 1200 -1400 mark. Right on the money.
There is some very cheap oils that meet that spec.

 

You know there has been talk of using diesel oil because it has more of the good stuff in it but like the gas motor oil you have to look over the bottles because new diesels now have cats just like gas motors do.
SO if the new diesels run cats then the oil has to have cut back on ZDDP also just like they did for gas oils.

I was also told, but never looked into it, that because diesel motors spin slower than gas motors they do not add as much anti-foam to the oil so you could be trying to pump foam and not oil in your motor.
Now this was in a race motor spinning 6000 to 6500 RPM max so don't know if that makes a difference?
Because of that I went back to normal gas oil and add a bottle of Lucas ZPPD at oil changes.
Dave ----

 

Yes in the past this could be an issue but not any longer with the advent of HUI systems that have been used for nearly 30 years now ALL diesel oils have the same if not more anti-foam agents than gasoline oils.
Your fears are based on information that is decades old and horribly out of date.
And again why the Mercedes specs are a good yardstick as their specs cover both Gasoline and Diesel as every oil rated for diesel use with Mercedes is also rated for Gasoline applications including their high revving multiple boosted AMG applications. Mercedes publishes what spec oils are used in what engines.
The Europeans are not quite so concerned with poisoning cats and are more concerned with engine longevity makes sense for companies like Mercedes whos vehicles get flogged on the no speed limit autobahn.
Here in North America, the regulations surrounding tailpipe emissions and pollution control device longevity and CAFE are quite strict and the domestic manufacturers have had to compromised engine longevity for pollution control device longevity and to meet CAFE regulations.

 

Yes Mercedes is very good with making information public. They can be a very good resource when trying to compare fluids greases etc.

 

Okay, I have found a pretty easy to come by oil data sheet states 1 to 1.2% ZDDP.

In concerns of the foaming, it actually addresses that in their technical sheet and says that it has anti foam agents in it.
The oil seems to be engineered for Mercedes heavy-duty oil rigs. The trucks I encounter here in Germany seem to rev pretty high, compared to what I am used to from America.