Hi there

I have already discussed the situation with this truck of mine in detail(way too much) here on this forum and still looking for a little advice.

As it stands right now the cab is going to be lifted and the engine removed again this week at a shop under warranty. The truck is almost a ten hour drive from home and I would like some advice as to what else I should consider trying to get done while the engine is out and at an engine shop. I plan to fly back up to get the truck in a few weeks.

This replacement engine has significant blow-by and oil usage with low compression on #2 found during a relative compression check when I returned the truck to the shop a week ago. They suspect the issue is in the top end but based upon the responses I have got here on the forum I suspect there is an issue with the rings or piston in at least that one cylinder. The motor was supposed to be a low mileage motor(70,000 miles) when it was installed and had head studs and new gaskets installed. I have my doubts about the actual mileage of the engine as it did not come from the shop itself and they got it elsewhere. The shop is a small place and the warranty is only listed on the advertisement in a three word ("6 month warranty") statement, but at least they are standing by their word and attempting to resolve the problem.

My question is assuming that there is an issue in Cylinder #2 what else should I request be done at this point given that the engine is out of the truck and at a shop that has the capability to overhaul the motor. As mentioned I have no way to tell if this is actually a low mileage motor and would rather spend a few extra dollars at this point in time if it will give me a little more confidence in the repair lasting a while. I want to avoid a "band-aid" solution that gets rid of most of that blow-by when it would be wise to get a little more done. There is a very likely possibility that this motor already has well over a hundred thousand miles, maybe even twice that, I have no idea.

By the time I get this truck back it will have cost me over $12,000 for this engine upgrade. I am fully aware of what I could have in there for the amount I have spent but it is a little late for that at this point. If spending an extra couple thousand in parts, honing cylinders, etc at this point is worth it I am willing to invest a little more. I could not even sell the truck in it's previous state, before or after this engine was installed as the blow-by was that bad.

Would I be wise to spend some extra money to get a complete set of new rings installed and pistons too while the cab is off and the engine sent out for repair?

I am not interested in having this engine taken out again, the truck sent elsewhere and starting over, hiring a lawyer, etc at this point in time. I would like to just feel like I got something out of this mess with a solid bottom end that I can slowly build upon in the future when necessary in terms of a turbo, injectors, oil cooler, oil pump, that can be done in my shop and will not need the cab removed yet again.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Gary

 

both main seals, crank and cam sensor, look for leaks around the oil pan. The lower 6.0 engine is robust. Did you make a compression test in the glow plug holes?

 

Replace the oil pan with a new Motorcraft so you don’t spend a ton of money and sink all that time in just to have a leaking oil pan.

 

One more thing on your actual topic: blow by does not occur on the top of the motor. As I already wrote, the lower part of the engine is very robust. When problems occur on the short block of the 6.0, they are often due to errors during repairs, incorrect injectors or similar. Ask the shop to do a compression test on the glow plug holes and have them take pictures of the engine internals. There is no way around an engine block overhaul with severe blowby. I cannot imagine that it is only a matter of caked piston rings.
Probably the block needs to be drilled to the first oversize and the crankshaft bearings need to be replaced.

 

Thanks for your reply(s) it was what I was looking for.

No there has not been an an actual compression test done and I really wish I did one myself or had one done before I even took the truck back up there so I knew what was up. Only a relative compression test has been done so far which I know based upon what I have read here only gives them an idea where the problem is.

I am going to talk to them today before they send the engine away.

My first choice would obviously be to have back the $4,000 I spent on that "upgraded" motor and put it toward the $7,500 long block that is studded and has a 100,000 mile warranty that is currently available 15 minutes from the shop the truck sits at. They are going to have to re & re an engine anyway. I could then do the injectors, oil cooler, oil pump turbo, etc in my shop as a "father and son" project later this spring when I have the money available. I doubt they are going to want to do that though as then they will have no gain from the work done to date, unless they know of someone else they can sell the current engine to once they fix it. They would also have to come up with a core assuming the engine is even worth rebuilding and is actually low mileage, but maybe they still have my original core. On top of the original $4000 engine and $2300 install cost I am also already into this replacement engine for four flights at $400 each, 10 nights of meals and hotel rooms, and $1500 in repairs which is more than double what I paid for the "upgraded" engine itself.

I really did not think about the sensors, oil pan and seals and given what I have experienced so far I assume they were not touched and I would definitely spend the money for those parts to avoid leaks.

Honing out all the cylinders and new rings was what I was thinking about the most myself in my limited knowledge. If crankshaft bearings would be a wise investment at this point I am going to request that as well.

From what I have read any you have stated the bottom end on a 6.0 is pretty good so would new pistons all the way around not be necessary or worth it? As mentioned I have no idea what the mileage is on this motor and very strongly suspect it is not the 70,000 mile motor I paid for. I really want to avoid missing anything obvious that should be dealt with while the motor is out. I realize everything is easier at this point but I want to leave the things I can deal with later for now and get the engine back in and be up and running.

Hopefully in the next day or two I am going to know where this will end up.

All I really want is a little bit of confidence that I have something reliable given I am into it for as much as a professionally and totally redone long block even if I have to spend a couple thousand more in parts myself.

The truck is an otherwise rust free King Ranch, excellent condition inside, with about $10,000 with of drivetrain work done(brakes, steering components, ball joints, etc) in the last couple years

 

Reading both threads you have started, asking for them to do the things you want to be done, and I'd put some of that as a bandaid as the cylinders may need a real overbore; this looks like a friggin mess, with a lot of the customer to contractor "While you are here" add-ons. I'd have no confidence in the build or what you will get out of this mess. $4,000, especially Canadian, is not where I would expect an "upgraded" motor to be priced at, as you call it. That would be more like a motor pulled from a salvage yard that had studs installed. Salvaged motors typically have a 3 or 6-month warrantee.

 

Yes it is a real mess.

I am quite certain it was a $1000 or less salvage yard motor that studs were probably installed one at a time into with the hopes it would last for a $2500 profit along with whatever they made out of the $2300 install fee. I have no confidence that my old 230,000 mile injectors, turbo, oil pump are not in that motor. I do know the oil cooler was changed though as the truck is far worse temperature wise now than the truck ever was before they started messing with it!!

I really have no confidence of it being done right by that shop but perhaps whomever the motor is sent out to is better and at least somewhat trust worthy.

Personally I would prefer not to spend another cent but am pretty certain I am going to be driving back with a 200,000 mile plus engine with a little less blow-by which is why I am considering spending a little more even though I am into it for $12,000 CAN already.

As mentioned my first choice would be getting the $4000 back and spending another $5,000 out of my pocket (tax included) to have a properly built long block installed with a proper warranty which I hope I would never need. I can change the rest out as soon as money allows (but within a couple months) so I don't have an old injector or glow plug dropping into those shiny new cylinders.

The other, and probably unfortunately more likely solution, is me spending a little more to have the engine bored out and a full set of rings installed. With the hopes that who is actually doing that is a reputable shop and hopefully will be installing the heads, gaskets, and studs. I would rather not see that engine again though.

They are going to have to pay for the entire rebuild of the existing engine so the least amount is going to be spent. Assuming the shop they send it to is not going to just fix the blow-by in #2 and be done with it maybe they will consider my preferred option.

I am far too old to be still learning these types of lessons!!

Thanks for all your replies to date

 

I’m guess by the pricing for the parts, salvage motors, and the comment of expecting to spend just a little more for the engine bored out with rings you’ve not delved into this type of work before.

I wish you well on this journey. OK stock salvage motors in the US run in the $3000-4000 range, no studs, not $1000.

 

Hartwig, blow by is on the top end, it’s combustion escaping around the rings to cylinder walls. The rods cause the rings to wear the inside and outside of the bore in an ellipse shape over time and also poor break in and oil maintenance cause the walls to groove. Boring them out as much as a GOOD machine shop sees fit is the only real way to remedy this wear, anything else is a waste.

 

Hello my friend, I know about blowby , this is what I wanted to express with my text. If it can be proved that the workshop has installed a defective engine, it must be given the opportunity to repair it three times here in Germany and the owner of the workshop would have to pay all subsequent costs (new journey, overnight stays...).
How is the liability in the US? In this case it is obvious that the installed motor was not ok

 

I know you understand blow by. I figured you did not mean what you post but wanted to not confuse this guy.
I’m not sure about a standard process for shop liability here but it sounds like this one needs to be “made famous” so other people know they are crooked or don’t know what they are doing.

 

So have some better news here finally.

The engine that was in the truck was beyond repair and I am getting my money that I had into that one returned and am putting it toward a full rebuild of another engine at a reputable engine shop in the same city. It is going to cost me another $3,000 dollars but new pistons and rings in the bottom and new valves, springs, seats, etc in the head. I will be into this engine for about $7,000 which matches the other long block options I looked at in the same town. This one will come with a 4 year / 120,000km (~70,000 mile) warrantee.

I am going to put a new OEM oil cooler on it and get the upgraded screen on the oil pump.

Not sure what if anything else I will look at doing at this point in time but injectors and maybe a turbo will likely follow as soon as I can afford them to help avoid damaging this engine as some of the components likely have 200,000 miles or more on them.

Thanks for all of the input and responses over the last month.

Gary

 

What about the 230,000 mile injectors? I'd have the FICM looked at and maybe go ahead and do top end sensers. Oil, coolant etc. I'm sure crank and cam sensers will come with build. If not those too. Not sure what money you'll have left after the lower build and what shape your top half was in. But those are some things that don't cost a lot but will cost.

 

Yes I am definitely concerned about the injectors. They either came from my original engine or this last one that was in the truck and likely have a few miles on them. I did have the FICM tested just prior to taking the truck in as I ran the batteries dead due to an alternator going bad on me a month ago. I think all of the sensors on the top end were changed within the last 10,000 miles and I will confirm that has been done. There are different heads being installed with new valves, springs, seats etc. It is apparently the best cylinder head shop in the province from what I have read and a well respected place to have an engine built as well. As soon as I can afford a fresh set of injectors I will get some installed so I don't risk having engine damage resulting from an old injector. There is already a coolant filter on it and a new FORD oil cooler is going on. I will make sure I follow through the appropriate coolant and oil changes required for a new engine.

 

Check out my engine rebuild thread as well as HTM101 rebuild thread if you want some reference material. I tried to be as detailed as possible and include a lot of photos.
I’d consider having those 230k injectors replaced with motorcrafts if you can swing it.