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Just inquiring about the typical life expectancy for the front timing cover.
What I'm looking for is a response regarding cover failure which happens sort of on its own, as opposed to a failure induced by damaging the cover during installation or repair associated with some other component (HPOP housing, water pump, front oil cooler head, etc.).
Context... I have what appears to be a leaking front cover seal at about the 10:00 position when looking at the engine from the front bumper. I honestly don't know if it was there already when I replaced my water pump, or if it was "almost there" and then broke loose when I remounted the new water pump, etc.). I know that folk have cracked the cover when making repairs to other attached components, I just don't know if that's really my situation, so I'm polling for different failure mechanisms just to get some context on my own situation.
Each user can vote multiple times because there are a number of us who either currently own or have owned multiple 7.3 vehicles over the years. In my own case, I am voting for both "spontaneous" and "induced" failure because I'm not certain which it is, and that is in addition to the fact I've had three 7.3 vehicles in the past 15 years.
Oh well, I forgot to click the "never failed" options for the two other 7.3's I've owned, and it won't let me go back in to edit my voting.
The picture below shows where the coolant "ooze" is coming from. It's brilliant green in color because of the fluorescent dye I used to track down the leak point. The tube to the right of the leak is the fuel bowl drain line, and this point is right where the drain line comes out of the valley and turns down the front of the block. I loosened the lower line bracket so I could shift the line away from the block for a better view of the ooze point. The blurry bolt hole boss in the upper left of the picture is the upper right hand position for the A/C compressor bracket mounting bolt.
When leaking at its fastest rate, immediately upon shutting down the engine, it drips roughly one drop every 3-4 seconds. Once the pressure is released from the system, the ooze eventually stops.
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The problem with starting multiple threads is that each new thread is devoid of the history that might offer some background that could help put the current issue of the present thread into context with the previous events that may have led to the current issue, or that may have already been tried in the effort to resolve the current issue.
Some of the regulars will know the context, but infrequent visitors might not. Then we have the frequent visitors who have lost their minds some time ago, and forget what happened yesterday, and thus each new day, and likewise every new thread, is a clean slate for them, having no memory of other threads that have gone before, however recent they may have been. And that would be me. So keep that in mind (everyone) on some of the long running projects you post about, that have unexpected twists and turns along the way. Sometimes, it may help those helping you to have the background context handy within the same thread that the new twist crops up in. As this thread is a poll, and specific to front covers, I can see the merits in it being stand alone.
But getting to the issue of front cover seepage... didn't you just hang a 35 lb cast iron water pump on that thing recently?
Good points, Y2K. I was trying to keep the issues somewhat separated, wanting to focus this thread on simply the typical life expectancy of the front cover. My other thought was to have the issues more easily searched. Maybe a bad call, but it is what it is. I'll link the other threads here, and then go to them to provide a link from there to here as well.
UPDATE: All threads have the appropriate cross-reference links so you can get the full story from wherever you start.
Yes, I installed the cast iron IH water pump just less than a month ago (and aluminum degas bottle, all new hoses, and new OEM style radiator at the same time). However, the water pump bolts through the front cover, and as such, should not create any significant additional stress to the front cover itself. Also, to follow this point a little further, the front covers on the engines the IH pump was initially designed for... are they not similar (or even exactly like) the one on our trucks?
Similar, yes, but the devil is in the details, and as you said when you described "inducement", the dilemma can often be attributed to the disturbance.
Different bolt lengths are needed with the water pumps in a couple of different spots, so there is another opportunity for a disturbance.
As to front covers... there are a bunch of them, and I may not have these example part numbers correct, so if searching just drop the suffix "9" after the "C" if you can't find what is posted below
1824379C91
1824537C93
1825378C91
1828179C92
The foregoing isn't all, but just a few of the T444E front covers, and I do not know the details between them all.
On the Ford side, there are different covers as well.
As to whether a difference in cover design has any effect on the propensity of installing a cast iron water pump to induce a front cover leak or not, I cannot say. Clearly, lots of folks have retrofitted cast iron water pumps. I don't see why, since it is usually the water pump SEAL that fails, not the casting. The argument that IH "originally designed the T444E to have a cast iron water pump" doesn't make sense. If it were not for Ford's money as an engine customer, International would not have been motivated to create the T444E. Furthermore, the 1994 Ford F-Series was the first vehicle to receive that engine. It isn't like Ford found the T444E, did a deal, dumbed it down, and thrifted it out to fit in a Ford. It was designed and intended to fit in a Ford from the very beginning.
So this notion "bringing the PSD back to the way that International originally designed the T444E to be" as is so often repeated online, initially promulgated by the marketing genius of Bob Riley, the former forum enthusiast and Amsoil dealer who started DieselSite, generates a lot of sales of retrofit parts, but the result of these added on amalgams isn't what was originally designed.
I will say though, that some folks at International were really upset at having to work within Ford's corporate EEC-IV vehicle data system, which forced the design of two engine management control systems... one for the major customer (Ford) that was proprietary to the that customer (the 104 pin PCM), and simultaneously an ECM system that could be used by International. As I recall, there was better alignment on engine control systems with the V365/6.0L. Sorry, I'm off topic. But the point is, the effort to "upgrade" the Powerstroke "back" to the "original" T444E is, I believe, a misunderstanding brought about by the marketing efforts of one very influential forum vendor.
What I want in a water pump is a good seal and a good bearing, and an impeller design that pumps fluid efficiently, with minimal issues in fluid dynamics, be it cavitation, aeration, or whatever.
If having two cooks (Ford and International) in the kitchen results in a better performing product, then great. It's hard to predict the effects of piecemealing one design on top of or in lieu of another, without knowing all the details, like why there are at least a half dozen different front cover designs. What are the differences? Do those differences matter? How does one obtain all the data? Is the effort worth the understanding that will be achieved?
Ultimately, in this case, the water pump was changed, and now there is a leak noticed between the front cover and the block. Was the leak there prior to the water pump change? Was that the leak, not yet diagnosed with point source dye, that motivated the change in water pump, where it was thought that the previous pump failed? Were the correct length bolts installed in the correct places with the replacement water pump having a different shape and depth of bolt bosses? Did the 5 times heavier mass of the cast iron pump become the final straw, after some vibration, in separating the Wacker T-95 sealant at a directional change in the perimeter of the front cover? Hard to say...
But you are certainly going about diagnosis in the correct way, last in, first out. Whatever was last disturbed is a likely suspect in the discovery of a new issue that presents itself subsequently. I had to change my OEM water pump after only 70,000 miles. That really torqued my stove too. I have other vehicles with 350,000 miles on the original water pump. I replaced the pump with a Motorcraft, and kept the OEM pump with a view in mind to rebuild it, with the best seal, the best bearing, and the best impeller I can get ahold of, that meets or exceeds the OEM dimensional, material, and performance specs. Key word being exceed, which is what I suspect that you were trying to do also, by going with the International cast iron water pump. I'm not convinced that the heavy housing offers any material benefit though.
Interesting info, Y2K. I always appreciate your depth of knowledge and perspective on all things 7.3
I can answer a few of your questions.
Was the leak pre-existing? Not sure. Can never know for sure at this point in the process. What I can say that I do know, though, is that whatever leak was there from the get go, it was originally an ooze which did not show itself the way this one does when I pull up and stop ni the driveway.
Correct bolt lengths were all installed in the correct positions on this new pump... I was extra careful to pre-position all the bolts as I lifted it and secured it in place with the longest two upper bolts, and for the two which fell out in that process, I installed them exactly as prescribed in the installation drawing supplied by DS.
I appreciate your vote of confidence in my diagnostic approach. I've confirmed that there is no dyed coolant leaking from anywhere except where you can see in the picture above. We all know that a leaking front cover is not a common failure point (unless it gets cracked).
At this point, I've "done the deed" with K-Seal as an internal chemical sealant, and it appears to be working (to be confirmed over the next couple days of heat up and cool down cycles). If the leak is indeed stopped, I'll run it with the leak stop chemical for another week or two, then purge and replace the coolant all over again, and then quick change the coolant filter twice over the coming two months.
If, on the other hand, the leak does not stop... I'll set an appointment for Zack Pierce's shop to pull the engine and replace the cover for me.
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