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It's because American manufacturers make a product to a price point. Whereas, over at Toyota (at least in Japanese factories) they build a product to consumer expectation. They are ashamed if a product fails. At the ford plant, they don't give a *****, as long as they clock out on time.
They are being pushed by the government and CAFE, to continuously meet higher and higher fuel mileage standards. And they are in a race with everyone else to see who can offer a truck with the most gadgets and gizmos on it. What you end up with is an unreliable POS, that was pushed out the door, and not developed and engineered properly. They, (Ford and everyone else), needs to slow it down about 5 notches. And they'll stop jumping the tracks every 5 minutes. Remember what happened when they started rushing to launch the Space Shuttle faster and faster. It didn't work out too well. Neither is this.
A big part of today's "reliability" ratings have nothing to do with reliability. If the truck starts, drives and stops without fail when needed it is reliable. If the entertainment system develops a glitch and you can still drive the truck, the truck is reliable, no matter how big a pain in the butt it is to take it to the dealership to fix an unnecessary convenience.
I live in an region where dealerships are often hundreds of miles apart and independent repair facilities can be spotty, both in location and ability. I use my truck in remote areas where help is oftentimes one to several hours away. Reliability is knowing it will start and get you out of the woods when you return from a hunt after sundown in sub-zero temperatures during a snow storm, even though it is twenty years old and the odometer shows 261,000 miles.
.......... If the entertainment system develops a glitch and you can still drive the truck, the truck is reliable, no matter how big a pain in the butt it is to take it to the dealership to fix an unnecessary convenience.........
The problem is people are paying a small fortune for these, "unnecessary conveniences". And they expect them to work properly, without having to drive to and from the dealer a half a dozen times in order to get it to work the way it should when it rolled off the assembly line. This kind of stuff shouldn't be a crap shoot when you're paying $60,000 to $70,000+ for a pickup truck. That's preposterous. That's part of the problem today. American consumers are becoming far too willing to accept crap as "the norm"..... It's NOT.
I totally agree with you that those systems should work the first time and every time, but they don't. The are over-engineered, and over-sold (just try to buy an XLT without a touch screen). But sadly they are under-built, especially for what they cost as shown by the CR report and others. That is exactly why I have decided to spend half the price of a new truck upgrading my simplistic but dead-nut reliable old Super Duty.
I am already slobbering and drooling over the thought of a supercharged Godzilla/ten speed in frront of my right foot in my steel bodied SD!
A lot of the problem is the consumer market they are aiming for. It was at one point in time that the truck market was for Ranchers, Contractors, and people who wanted to haul or tow. Now they are trying to please "The Soccer Mom/Dad". or the "Urban Wannabe".
When I want a truck it is for hauling, towing, winching, and other Manly reasons. I don't want a screen that glows and distracts me from night driving. I want a heater fan control that I can adjust without taking my eyes off the road. I don't need a GPS screen because I have the ability to read a map and plan my trip before hitting the road. As far as connecting my phone to my truck, No Thanks, my truck is a truck not an "Electronic Media Machine"
It would be interesting if Ford offered a "Truck" what the sales would be.
Neighbor's son just bought a $40K Ford Ranger. Not even a month old, and the rear camera was blanking out. Ok, I noticed there was a recall, and he took it in and they told him it will be a few months till recall parts are available. Also, the fit of the interior was not impressive. Same with another neighbor's F350 (a crack on the dash cluster, some plastic film protector - lite blue- was sticking out from console, driver's side door lock snapped off.)
I realize that the truck segment is their (the automakers) most profitable, but for me, I can't justify spending over $50K for a truck, in which its quality is questionable. Other's point out Toyota (I've owned that brand, and put over 230K miles on a truck) but their QC is still questionable (IIRC, my 3.4Ltr had head gasket issues, clutch bracket failures, and numerous minor issues along the way).
I think for the money, the expectation is, this thing needs to run ATLEAST 200K miles without a hiccup. Too many electronic issues, 3rd party issues (takata airbags, etc) and engine issues (see 5.4L 3v phazer/oil/engine fails).
Some have a truck as daily driver, along with luxuries found in most sedans (4dr, sunroof, power everything, ...) but I've found that its not the same across models and makes. Why doesn't Toyota have a HD Diesel model? Why are Dodge trucks so cheap (price and Quality)? Why can't I get a towing package, leather seats, retractable mirrors (pwr), heated/cooled seating, power rear window but no sunroof, and 6-8'bed in a color I want? Why aren't all trucks aluminum/anti-rust materials? You know the rest...
As long as people keep buying these overpriced headaches, nothing will change. I've got a 2018 F150 XLT 4x4 with the 3.5 Eco Boost. Its been a big disappointment. Timing chain adjuster failure at 40k. Took them a two weeks to do the repair. Found some bolts had sheared off and had to take the oil pan off to find them before they could put it back together. So now what? They will cover that repair for 2 yrs. What happens when it goes again after that? Its a $3,500 repair.
Interesting topic. Not just trucks... Same can be said for work boots, washing machines, microwaves, electronic equipment, etc. Started back when I was in elementary school. A book was written called "The Dumbing of America". We now reap the benefits of a dumb America. We are over run with what Ayn Rand termed the "Looter's".
So true Hobo. I damn near died when I had to replace a refrigerator in my house. $1,700 for a refer?? Got it installed and it failed. Had to be replaced. Service guy said they can't even work on them anymore. Its all electronic circuits. Jeez, that old GE refer my folks had when I was born in 1952 lasted till I moved out of the house and many years after that.
Curb your driveway trophy diva ego and don't buy new.
Keep that 10,15, 20 year old truck and keep swapping parts. It's way cheaper in the end, you have a track record of what goes wrong with older trucks that lets you anticipate problems and proactively fix them. Every part is everywhere and cheap. Even buy a second truck as back up in case your main ride doesn't start one morning. Decent maintenance will make that unlikely. The math works better than buying a new tinsel queen. It may be why old, low mileage trucks on websites like Bring a Trailer are bringing big bucks.
My 2000 Excursion keeps on rolling without GPS, lane or backup sensors, forward looking digi-eyeballs, seat massager, third member stroker, autopilot or an infotainment console. If I can't fix something, I just get a bigger hammer. On days where I have more gas receipts (V10) in my wallet than money and don't need the 3/4 ton capacity, I get into my 2002 Suzuki Vitara.
Old trucks can be as or more reliable than new with simple maintenance. And if they do fail 50 kms into the bush, a crescent wrench, a Leatherman, bailing wire, 2 beers and a sandwich will likely fix it instead of a laptop and a tofu salad.
They are being pushed by the government and CAFE, to continuously meet higher and higher fuel mileage standards. And they are in a race with everyone else to see who can offer a truck with the most gadgets and gizmos on it. What you end up with is an unreliable POS, that was pushed out the door, and not developed and engineered properly. They, (Ford and everyone else), needs to slow it down about 5 notches. And they'll stop jumping the tracks every 5 minutes. Remember what happened when they started rushing to launch the Space Shuttle faster and faster. It didn't work out too well. Neither is this.
Well, not exactly IMHO...... as each of the car mfg's sit on the CAFE committee with the scientists and they together come up with what is obtainable and the timelines, then they are submitted to sub-committees and principle committees for review, analysis and final input........ so each knows and has agreed to (no matter what the PR people say) to the "new" standards. Where the issues come is internally, were as you eluded to, complexity reduces reliability and increases maintenance cost... and when economic downturns hit, or you get a new CEO whose looking to make a name for themselves (such as Jack Nasser), they internally make decisions that benefit for the short term.
With regards to the Space shuttle, that was greed driven with a schedule that was untenable. Specific to Challenger, I and my wife worked at Hughes Aircraft at the time who had 2 personnel on that launch (Dr. Gregory Jarvis of Hughes Space & Comm. and Ronald McNair, physicists at Hughes Research Labs- Malibu, Calif) . The pain of the loss was one they you never forget..... for 2 weeks you could literally walk into any building and hear a pin drop to the floor.
My dad back in the 50's was the engineer who designed the o-rings for those rocket engines........ they were NEVER designed to be launched in those temps...... Dr. Currie, then President of HAC, who led the accident investigation called my dad to give his opinion..... it took him less than 3 hours... he said his piece and left.
12-07-2020, 01:44 PM
