New problem
Thread Starter
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,673
Likes: 531
From: Houston, Texas
What do you mean by putting a screw through the fan clutch? This is an emergency - I gotta drive through a 104 degree desert tomorrow.
So at idle, I wont hear the clutch at high rpm, but will the blue wire mod change the speed at all, so I can see the difference in the PID data?
Just not sure how to confirm I got good contact on my splice and ground before driving away.
So at idle, I wont hear the clutch at high rpm, but will the blue wire mod change the speed at all, so I can see the difference in the PID data?
Just not sure how to confirm I got good contact on my splice and ground before driving away.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,808
Likes: 1,895
From: unfortunately Germany
What do you mean by putting a screw through the fan clutch? This is an emergency - I gotta drive through a 104 degree desert tomorrow.
So at idle, I wont hear the clutch at high rpm, but will the blue wire mod change the speed at all, so I can see the difference in the PID data?
Just not sure how to confirm I got good contact on my splice and ground before driving away.
So at idle, I wont hear the clutch at high rpm, but will the blue wire mod change the speed at all, so I can see the difference in the PID data?
Just not sure how to confirm I got good contact on my splice and ground before driving away.
your fan clutch works similar to a converter on your automatic transmission.
You could remove it and put a screw through the whole case and connect everything together. I have pictures of it, but would have to look for it tonight...
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,673
Likes: 531
From: Houston, Texas
here you can see how my provosoric circuit worked. The temperatures are in degrees celsius
after switching den fan clutch, the ECT drops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVQUFazeI3A
after switching den fan clutch, the ECT drops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVQUFazeI3A
Now, I'm dealing with burned, flimsy wires and they're hard to get to in this Eseries.
explain the screw through the fan clutch mod please.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 934
Likes: 248
From: CA
OK, I got the speed sensor data. When I first started out this morning, it was +/- 1200rpm. After about 30 miles that was down to 1100, later it stayed under 1000 for most the day. I think that was reflecting the speed I was driving - as I slowed down, the fan slowed down.
But, I also have seen it kick up - when the coolant hit 213.8, the fan kicked in for 10-15 seconds. First time, it went as high as 2200rpm, every time since then, it only goes up to about 1800. But, 10-15 seconds isn't enough. It knocks the coolant back to 212, for a few minutes. It did kick into high RPM once, when the coolant hit 215, got up to about 2500rpm and sounded like it usually does at high speed. But, again, it only lasted a few seconds, not long enough to matter.
Right as I quit tonight, it also kicked in a few times as I was driving slowly in city traffic, like it does sometimes when you first start out from a red light.
The truck did like yesterday - when I started out this morning, it ran great. All the way across New Mexico, EOT was in the low teens. It'd go up to maybe 218 going up a hill, but would cool back down. But, that was mostly flat land.
Then, I got to AZ, and there was a long incline over many miles, and you could just watch the EOT tick up a couple of tenths of a degree at a time. Just when I was about to pull over, I reached the crest and started downhill. Got all the way back to 206EOT and stayed that way for another hour or so. Then, it was getting hot out, and the rest of the afternoon, I struggled to keep it in the low 220s. Driving 45-50mph.
It's like the truck drives great until elevation makes it get hot up to a point that it needs the fan to cool down, without the fan, it never cools down again. I literally almost have to pull over and let it cool down. By the time I got to Phoenix, it wouldn't cool down even going 30mph around city traffic and flat land; stayed around 221.
But, importantly, it's 102 degrees in Phoenix today. I get the feeling that if I were driving in 50-60 degree weather, the truck would drive normal. But because its been 80+ this whole trip, it needs that fan to work.
Soooo, I've tried mess with the fan again this morning. My dilemma is that if I mess with it too long, I'm using up the cool part of the day when it would drive fine. I cut into the light blue wire on the harness side to expose some bare wire, then took a length of wire and wrapped the bare end around that cut I made. I started the truck and tried to ground the other end of that wire around the engine compartment and nothing happened. I remembered reading an old thread here in which someone said that wouldn't work with the truck just idling because the engine doesn't make enough heat for the PCM to send power to the fan. So, needing to drive and it being cool morning, I took off with the bare end of the wire in the cab. After the truck warmed up, I tried grounding it to metal in the cab (it has a heavy steel mounting stand for the lever that opens the swing doors), and still nothing.
Not sure if my splice is no good, if I got the wrong wire in the connector, if I wasn't grounded it properly, or ??? At the time, I even figured that there was no way it could work, thinking that the connector wires were burnt through was why the fan wasn't working. If they're burnt through, then grounding them would do nothing.
However, now that I've seen that the fan does actually kick in, I'm thinking that means that all the wires in the connector are intact. So, why does the fan only run a few seconds?
Does that behavior suggest that maybe one wire is burnt through? Maybe I need to splice that wire directly into both sides of the connector, to bypass the shorted out section. have to go to the other side of the connector because the burnt shorted out spot is right up next to the harness-side connector - there's no good wire left to splice to.
This is crazy - my truck is running great, but I might blow it up just because I can't get the dang fan to run. And, I can't get a pigtail for that connector out here on the road. I got no choice but to splice, but some of the burnt wires don't have much left to splice to. Before I tear into it, and potentially get really stuck out here, I wonder whether it could be something else? Maybe the fan clutch went bad? Or the sensor?
Tomorrow is my worst day. West from Phoenix is desert, then mountains higher than then ones in AZ before I get to LA. I might make it past the desert if I start out early - the entire distance is less than 400 miles - but not if I stop to work on it in the morning.
Any suggestions?
But, I also have seen it kick up - when the coolant hit 213.8, the fan kicked in for 10-15 seconds. First time, it went as high as 2200rpm, every time since then, it only goes up to about 1800. But, 10-15 seconds isn't enough. It knocks the coolant back to 212, for a few minutes. It did kick into high RPM once, when the coolant hit 215, got up to about 2500rpm and sounded like it usually does at high speed. But, again, it only lasted a few seconds, not long enough to matter.
Right as I quit tonight, it also kicked in a few times as I was driving slowly in city traffic, like it does sometimes when you first start out from a red light.
The truck did like yesterday - when I started out this morning, it ran great. All the way across New Mexico, EOT was in the low teens. It'd go up to maybe 218 going up a hill, but would cool back down. But, that was mostly flat land.
Then, I got to AZ, and there was a long incline over many miles, and you could just watch the EOT tick up a couple of tenths of a degree at a time. Just when I was about to pull over, I reached the crest and started downhill. Got all the way back to 206EOT and stayed that way for another hour or so. Then, it was getting hot out, and the rest of the afternoon, I struggled to keep it in the low 220s. Driving 45-50mph.
It's like the truck drives great until elevation makes it get hot up to a point that it needs the fan to cool down, without the fan, it never cools down again. I literally almost have to pull over and let it cool down. By the time I got to Phoenix, it wouldn't cool down even going 30mph around city traffic and flat land; stayed around 221.
But, importantly, it's 102 degrees in Phoenix today. I get the feeling that if I were driving in 50-60 degree weather, the truck would drive normal. But because its been 80+ this whole trip, it needs that fan to work.
Soooo, I've tried mess with the fan again this morning. My dilemma is that if I mess with it too long, I'm using up the cool part of the day when it would drive fine. I cut into the light blue wire on the harness side to expose some bare wire, then took a length of wire and wrapped the bare end around that cut I made. I started the truck and tried to ground the other end of that wire around the engine compartment and nothing happened. I remembered reading an old thread here in which someone said that wouldn't work with the truck just idling because the engine doesn't make enough heat for the PCM to send power to the fan. So, needing to drive and it being cool morning, I took off with the bare end of the wire in the cab. After the truck warmed up, I tried grounding it to metal in the cab (it has a heavy steel mounting stand for the lever that opens the swing doors), and still nothing.
Not sure if my splice is no good, if I got the wrong wire in the connector, if I wasn't grounded it properly, or ??? At the time, I even figured that there was no way it could work, thinking that the connector wires were burnt through was why the fan wasn't working. If they're burnt through, then grounding them would do nothing.
However, now that I've seen that the fan does actually kick in, I'm thinking that means that all the wires in the connector are intact. So, why does the fan only run a few seconds?
Does that behavior suggest that maybe one wire is burnt through? Maybe I need to splice that wire directly into both sides of the connector, to bypass the shorted out section. have to go to the other side of the connector because the burnt shorted out spot is right up next to the harness-side connector - there's no good wire left to splice to.
This is crazy - my truck is running great, but I might blow it up just because I can't get the dang fan to run. And, I can't get a pigtail for that connector out here on the road. I got no choice but to splice, but some of the burnt wires don't have much left to splice to. Before I tear into it, and potentially get really stuck out here, I wonder whether it could be something else? Maybe the fan clutch went bad? Or the sensor?
Tomorrow is my worst day. West from Phoenix is desert, then mountains higher than then ones in AZ before I get to LA. I might make it past the desert if I start out early - the entire distance is less than 400 miles - but not if I stop to work on it in the morning.
Any suggestions?
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Thread Starter
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,673
Likes: 531
From: Houston, Texas
Well, the Bipolar Bus had a good day. Decided to try to hotwire the blue wire again. Up early, started by wiring a good ground to one side of my toggle switch, and getting the switch located where I could easily access it. Then, checked where I had tried to splice into the blue wire yesterday, when I got no results byI rubbing the other end of the wire against metal as a ground - it still looked good, like my wire was making good contact with the part of the blue wire I'd stripped bare. Connected the other end of that wire to the other side of my toggle switch after routing it out of the hood and through the door jamb.
Turned the key on and synced Torque. Of course, it showed nothing for fan speed, and flipping my toggle switch did nothing. Started the engine, got a fan speed at idle of around 850, flipped my toggle switch and nothing happened. Tried it both ways several times, allowing many seconds each time for the PCM to send the command. Nothing.
So, I figured the engine wasn't warm enough for the PCM to do anything, I'd have to drive it. Figured, WTH, packed up all my stuff, and headed out across the desert. Figured it the wire mod didn't work, I'd make it as far as I could before the day heated up, then find some shade to sleep in until dark and drive the rest of the way. I really didn't think I'd accomplished anything with my wire mod.
At should add at this part that the last 200 yards I drove the truck the night before, barely going through parking lots, the fan kicked in, and for a long time. It was running as I pulled up to park. I almost waited for it to stop, but just turned the key off. I figured the PCM was reading different sensors at that point, the same way it'll turn on the fan after idling at a red light, regardless of temps.
So, back to this morning, I'm taking off, idling through the parking lot, all normal, engine barely warmed up. I get to the street and actually give it some gas, and the fan kicks in, and stays in, it hasn't turned off since, and I've been driving all day. My toggle switch doesn't have any effect. I think it's a continuation of what happened as I parked the night before.
Needless to say, it does a good job cooling the engine. I drove hundreds of miles through the 104 degree desert and my EOT temps were under 210 the entire trip; a lot of it they were in the low 200s. My ECT struggled to open the thermostat for awhile. When I hit the mountains outside San Diego (I took the southerly route), I did get some high temps. I made it over the first steep climb easy enough, but the second, longer climb overwhelmed the fan and I pulled over to let the truck cool down. Made it the rest of the way, no problem. Was I was in Oceanside and the sun went down, my EOT was under 200. The engine fan was always running through all that.
It was dark when I pulled over, and I haven't checked the wiring, but I don't think what I did this morning mattered. The only logical explanation is that the wire I ran yesterday - from my blue wire splice into the cab w/o a toggle switch, just the bare end to rub on metal to ground (this morning I attached it to the toggle switch) has itself rubbed a barespot and is grounding out against the hood or door when I've snaked the wire into the cab.
Whatever has changed, I didn't want to mess with it until I made it through the desert. After making that drive, I realize that I would have never made it in the truck without the fan running. If that fan hadn't kicked on this morning, I would have drove off into the desert and something would have died, me or the truck. Even with the fan constantly chugging at 2500RPM, it got too hot going over that one mountain. I gotta drive back across it in a few days, up in northern Nevada. I'm hoping it's a little cooler up there.
Do y'all think running constantly is going to burn my fan clutch up? I imagine it is reducing my gas mileage, and it barely makes it up hills if I don't have speed going into them - the transmission won't shift up because when I give it more pedal, the fan is spinning so fast it sounds like it's going to explode.
Turned the key on and synced Torque. Of course, it showed nothing for fan speed, and flipping my toggle switch did nothing. Started the engine, got a fan speed at idle of around 850, flipped my toggle switch and nothing happened. Tried it both ways several times, allowing many seconds each time for the PCM to send the command. Nothing.
So, I figured the engine wasn't warm enough for the PCM to do anything, I'd have to drive it. Figured, WTH, packed up all my stuff, and headed out across the desert. Figured it the wire mod didn't work, I'd make it as far as I could before the day heated up, then find some shade to sleep in until dark and drive the rest of the way. I really didn't think I'd accomplished anything with my wire mod.
At should add at this part that the last 200 yards I drove the truck the night before, barely going through parking lots, the fan kicked in, and for a long time. It was running as I pulled up to park. I almost waited for it to stop, but just turned the key off. I figured the PCM was reading different sensors at that point, the same way it'll turn on the fan after idling at a red light, regardless of temps.
So, back to this morning, I'm taking off, idling through the parking lot, all normal, engine barely warmed up. I get to the street and actually give it some gas, and the fan kicks in, and stays in, it hasn't turned off since, and I've been driving all day. My toggle switch doesn't have any effect. I think it's a continuation of what happened as I parked the night before.
Needless to say, it does a good job cooling the engine. I drove hundreds of miles through the 104 degree desert and my EOT temps were under 210 the entire trip; a lot of it they were in the low 200s. My ECT struggled to open the thermostat for awhile. When I hit the mountains outside San Diego (I took the southerly route), I did get some high temps. I made it over the first steep climb easy enough, but the second, longer climb overwhelmed the fan and I pulled over to let the truck cool down. Made it the rest of the way, no problem. Was I was in Oceanside and the sun went down, my EOT was under 200. The engine fan was always running through all that.
It was dark when I pulled over, and I haven't checked the wiring, but I don't think what I did this morning mattered. The only logical explanation is that the wire I ran yesterday - from my blue wire splice into the cab w/o a toggle switch, just the bare end to rub on metal to ground (this morning I attached it to the toggle switch) has itself rubbed a barespot and is grounding out against the hood or door when I've snaked the wire into the cab.
Whatever has changed, I didn't want to mess with it until I made it through the desert. After making that drive, I realize that I would have never made it in the truck without the fan running. If that fan hadn't kicked on this morning, I would have drove off into the desert and something would have died, me or the truck. Even with the fan constantly chugging at 2500RPM, it got too hot going over that one mountain. I gotta drive back across it in a few days, up in northern Nevada. I'm hoping it's a little cooler up there.
Do y'all think running constantly is going to burn my fan clutch up? I imagine it is reducing my gas mileage, and it barely makes it up hills if I don't have speed going into them - the transmission won't shift up because when I give it more pedal, the fan is spinning so fast it sounds like it's going to explode.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 2,808
Likes: 1,895
From: unfortunately Germany
your fan clutch is already defective. You cannot destroy anything else.
If nothing helps anymore, think of my "screw solution".
But what makes me think is that the motor gets too warm despite full fan power. You should take care of that
If nothing helps anymore, think of my "screw solution".
But what makes me think is that the motor gets too warm despite full fan power. You should take care of that
Thread Starter
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,673
Likes: 531
From: Houston, Texas
Thread Starter
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,673
Likes: 531
From: Houston, Texas
Well, just an update. I've made it as far as SF. Truck is driving the same way - nice and cool, fan running, low power. The way the fan reaches such high RPMs when under loads is crazy. Driving on flat roads, I can force it to shift up around 2k engine rpms with the fan running maybe 2500rpms by just dumping off the pedal. It plops into the higher gear, and has a bit of a hole to dig out of, but it keeps the fan rpms from going higher. If I'm going uphill or under load, it won't plop into the higher gear very easily. I have to get engine rpms over 2500, at which point the engine fan is screaming.
Hopefully, that will all be easier after I get rid of this trailer. I've already hit my minimum revenue numbers, so if I don't find a trailer to pull east, I'll be OK. Once I get to Erie is the only problem left. Pulling a trailer from there back to Houston. About 4500lbs - heavier than the one I have now. On the positive side, once I clear southern Ohio, it's pretty easy terrain with a downhill tilt overall.
I know I should be fixing this, but I hate working on the side of the road, or motel parking lots, or behind the auto parts store, when the job could potentially disable the truck. I'm assuming that my fan clutch is locked up, and not that my blue wire mod is making it stay on. Is that the usual result of a fan clutch going out, that it locks on? Which, I'm assuming, means the blue wire mod is useless, that was grounding the pulse voltage. BTW, I do have a fan clutch DTC now, forget the number.
I also assume that I might now hotwire a different wire - isn't there one of those wires providing power, right? And I could switch it on and off, I'd guess? Or switch the ground side? I know nothing about this stuff. I've just decided not to touch it - I'm better off driving 55mph all the way home, if it'll make it, and working on it there. If I mess with it out here, I'm liable to mess it up and be stranded.
Crazy sights along the way so far:
Some guy running from the DPS in West Texas. Barrelling down the highway with the officer on his tail, full lights and sirens. From the time I first saw him ahead coming the other way, until he passed out of my rearview, he was driving just like that. It wasn't that he didn't see the cop car.
That's funny because I'm talking West Texas. Middle of Nowhere. Probably more than a 100 miles in any direction to the nearest town. And you can see that far, because it's flat and empty. You can count the number of trees above waist high in a 20 sq. mile area while driving. Where did the guy thing he was going to give the cop the slip? Was he looking for a place to ditch the car and make a run for it?
Geezus, LA is filthy. Or, really, a lot of SoCal. Some of it is the dust from the fires, I think. Lots of cars covered with it. But not the trash. There's trash everywhere. That first hurricane to hit Louisiana didn't do major damage, although it did wipe out Steamboat Bill's and, probably, Darrel's, two of my fav restaurants in Lake Charles. Now, they got another one coming.
I was hoping for a nice cool trip, but WTx and the Az/Ca deserts were still dang hot. I'm hoping the northern route back will be better.
Hopefully, that will all be easier after I get rid of this trailer. I've already hit my minimum revenue numbers, so if I don't find a trailer to pull east, I'll be OK. Once I get to Erie is the only problem left. Pulling a trailer from there back to Houston. About 4500lbs - heavier than the one I have now. On the positive side, once I clear southern Ohio, it's pretty easy terrain with a downhill tilt overall.
I know I should be fixing this, but I hate working on the side of the road, or motel parking lots, or behind the auto parts store, when the job could potentially disable the truck. I'm assuming that my fan clutch is locked up, and not that my blue wire mod is making it stay on. Is that the usual result of a fan clutch going out, that it locks on? Which, I'm assuming, means the blue wire mod is useless, that was grounding the pulse voltage. BTW, I do have a fan clutch DTC now, forget the number.
I also assume that I might now hotwire a different wire - isn't there one of those wires providing power, right? And I could switch it on and off, I'd guess? Or switch the ground side? I know nothing about this stuff. I've just decided not to touch it - I'm better off driving 55mph all the way home, if it'll make it, and working on it there. If I mess with it out here, I'm liable to mess it up and be stranded.
Crazy sights along the way so far:
Some guy running from the DPS in West Texas. Barrelling down the highway with the officer on his tail, full lights and sirens. From the time I first saw him ahead coming the other way, until he passed out of my rearview, he was driving just like that. It wasn't that he didn't see the cop car.
That's funny because I'm talking West Texas. Middle of Nowhere. Probably more than a 100 miles in any direction to the nearest town. And you can see that far, because it's flat and empty. You can count the number of trees above waist high in a 20 sq. mile area while driving. Where did the guy thing he was going to give the cop the slip? Was he looking for a place to ditch the car and make a run for it?
Geezus, LA is filthy. Or, really, a lot of SoCal. Some of it is the dust from the fires, I think. Lots of cars covered with it. But not the trash. There's trash everywhere. That first hurricane to hit Louisiana didn't do major damage, although it did wipe out Steamboat Bill's and, probably, Darrel's, two of my fav restaurants in Lake Charles. Now, they got another one coming.
I was hoping for a nice cool trip, but WTx and the Az/Ca deserts were still dang hot. I'm hoping the northern route back will be better.
Thread Starter
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,673
Likes: 531
From: Houston, Texas
Made it across the desert again, from Reno to Salt Lake City. Really makes you respect the settlers who crossed that in covered wagons.
Truck runs fine on flat land. Fan still high, but I'm used to the noise. I got about 1800 miles of this easy stuff, then I pick up the trailer in PA going back to Tx.
Truck runs fine on flat land. Fan still high, but I'm used to the noise. I got about 1800 miles of this easy stuff, then I pick up the trailer in PA going back to Tx.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,824
Likes: 3,104
From: Jersey Shore
That van is a modern covered wagon.
But yeah, taking a family across the region with the limited amount of things you could take was impressive. So much could and did go wrong. But at least no kid meltdowns due to poor cell coverage.
But yeah, taking a family across the region with the limited amount of things you could take was impressive. So much could and did go wrong. But at least no kid meltdowns due to poor cell coverage.