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I’ve compared some high dollar stuff to good ole 100% silicone grease (quality dielectric grease) and the dielectric works better and lasts the longest. It has a HIGH melting point - which is why it stays put the longest. The other products gets really ‘thin’ and just run out when hot
Got to this thread from another thread. I can't take it any more. Sky, really need to provide more substance to support your recommendations when it comes to automotive/truck systems that have serious safety reliance designed into them. Your reply infers you are not aware the high temperatures generated in the braking system and thus transferred to the caliper slide pins. Not to mention the volatility and bearing capacity differences between dielectric grease and OEM recommended caliper pin grease.
I support my view on this post with just a few snips of the MSDS of one of the most recognized dielectric greases used:
Vapor pressure: < 5 mm hg (77 °F (25°C))
Boiling point/range: > 300 °F (> 148.9 °C)
None Melting point/ range: Not available.
Specific gravity: 0.86
Vapor density: Heavier than air. Flash point: > 260 °C (> 500°F) HST-US D09F; Flash/Fire Point By Cleveland Open Cup
Hazardous decomposition products: Formaldehyde. Oxides of carbon. - Heat!
Conditions to avoid: Heat, flames, sparks and other sources of ignition - Conditions to avoid: Heat, flames, sparks and other sources of ignition - I.E. - Highly volatile
Inhalation: When heated to temperatures exceeding 300° F (150° C) in the presence of air, silicone may form formaldehyde vapors. Formaldehyde is a potential cancer hazard and a known skin and respiratory sensitizer. Vapors irritate the eyes, nose and throat. Safe handling conditions may be maintained by keeping formaldehyde vapor concentrations below the OSHA permissible limit. Mist or spray may cause respiratory tract irritation and delayed onset pulmonary edema. Skin contact: Causes skin irritation. Eye contact: Causes serious eye irritation.
Dielectric Grease (a basic silicone based compound) is a compound that is highly water resistance, and provides a high level of corrosion prevention,. As the name predicates when used in "electrical connections." Electrical connections in which dielectric grease is designed to be used in no way what so ever generate the high temperatures and bearing pressures generated in the braking systems in any braking system used in the past, and or current, auto or truck braking systems.
My recommendation, pending any evidence proving otherwise by Sky, is anyone who has serviced their brake calipers with dielectric grease, please, without delay, service your brake calipers ASAP with the recommended grease/lubricants recommended by the manufacture of the vehicle.
Got to this thread from another thread. I can't take it any more. Sky, really need to provide more substance to support your recommendations when it comes to automotive/truck systems that have serious safety reliance designed into them. Your reply infers you are not aware the high temperatures generated in the braking system and thus transferred to the caliper slide pins. Not to mention the volatility and bearing capacity differences between dielectric grease and OEM recommended caliper pin grease.
I support my view on this post with just a few snips of the MSDS of one of the most recognized dielectric greases used:
Vapor pressure: < 5 mm hg (77 °F (25°C))
Boiling point/range: > 300 °F (> 148.9 °C)
None Melting point/ range: Not available.
Specific gravity: 0.86
Vapor density: Heavier than air. Flash point: > 260 °C (> 500°F) HST-US D09F; Flash/Fire Point By Cleveland Open Cup
Hazardous decomposition products: Formaldehyde. Oxides of carbon. - Heat!
Conditions to avoid: Heat, flames, sparks and other sources of ignition - Conditions to avoid: Heat, flames, sparks and other sources of ignition - I.E. - Highly volatile
Inhalation: When heated to temperatures exceeding 300° F (150° C) in the presence of air, silicone may form formaldehyde vapors. Formaldehyde is a potential cancer hazard and a known skin and respiratory sensitizer. Vapors irritate the eyes, nose and throat. Safe handling conditions may be maintained by keeping formaldehyde vapor concentrations below the OSHA permissible limit. Mist or spray may cause respiratory tract irritation and delayed onset pulmonary edema. Skin contact: Causes skin irritation. Eye contact: Causes serious eye irritation.
Dielectric Grease (a basic silicone based compound) is a compound that is highly water resistance, and provides a high level of corrosion prevention,. As the name predicates when used in "electrical connections." Electrical connections in which dielectric grease is designed to be used in no way what so ever generate the high temperatures and bearing pressures generated in the braking systems in any braking system used in the past, and or current, auto or truck braking systems.
My recommendation, pending any evidence proving otherwise by Sky, is anyone who has serviced their brake calipers with dielectric grease, please, without delay, service your brake calipers ASAP with the recommended grease/lubricants recommended by the manufacture of the vehicle.
Blue
Very well written Blue. Thanks for your input.
I adamantly stand behind my recommendation. After many years of using exclusively dielectric grease on SuperDuty slide pins, I am CONFIDENT there is not a better product for this application. I’ve used this on dozens and dozens of trucks - many that I have serviced regularly for several years.
Your implication that I don’t understand the demands of the braking system is, well, simply comical.
Based on your response, we should never use the stuff on SPARK PLUG WIRES or even on incandescent trailer bulb bases. I strongly disagree with your evaluation and encourage you to do what you’re comfortable with. If you think there is a better product you should use it. If you have some real world experience that differs from my EXTENSIVE experience with dielectric grease - you should share it. But, the Chicken Little mantra is a little much for just pure speculation and misinterpreted ‘substance’....
My advice also includes checking slide pins at least at every tire rotation and more often for trucks used infrequently.
Slide pins can even be checked without even jacking the truck up. Just loosen bolt and use it to push slide pin in and pull it out.
I have used this stuff for years, works great, thick and stays put. Being from the northeast slide pins were a constant problem until I found this stuff. The downfall is it costs a premium.
When this can runs out I will try the much less expensive dielectric grease, hopefully it won’t cost me in the long run! It’s probably the same stuff.
Just for FYI sake... Not an argument point or validation point in anyway, shape or form. ACDelco brand was provided by Dan, thank you sir for playing along... I included Super Lube 91003 because that is what I have on hand and will be using.
Motorcraft XG-3-A flash point: 213* F Super Lube 91003 flash point: 572* F ACDelco Silicone Brake Lube flash point: 500* F Permatex Dielectric Tune Up Grease flash point: 203* F
Motorcraft XG-3-A conditions to avoid: Contact with incompatible materials Super Lube 91003 conditions to avoid: No further relevant information ACDelco Silicone Brake Lube conditions to avoid: Heat or contamination Permatex Dielectric Tune Up Grease conditions to avoid: Excessive heat
You do realize that Motorcraft caliper grease is a silicon dielectric grease, right?
Sky, my apologies. I was not trying to be comical. The point I was trying to make is when it comes to systems such as the brakes for safety reasons it is critical to use the correct materials when servicing. I have MC caliper grease and use it. I also have some Loctite Dielectric grease and Permatex Dielectric grease. I would never consider using these for brake calipers.
Thus the point I tried to make in response to Sky's post, was it is important to be specific when making such a strong recommendation on using "dielectric grease" when servicing serious systems such as the brakes. As not all readers on these forums will recognize and understand that all "dielectric greases" are equivalent and interchangeable.
I too stand by my post. "service your brake calipers ASAP with the recommended grease/lubricants recommended by the manufacture of the vehicle."
Sky, my apologies. I was not trying to be comical. The point I was trying to make is when it comes to systems such as the brakes for safety reasons it is critical to use the correct materials when servicing. I have MC caliper grease and use it. I also have some Loctite Dielectric grease and Permatex Dielectric grease. I would never consider using these for brake calipers.
Thus the point I tried to make in response to Sky's post, was it is important to be specific when making such a strong recommendation on using "dielectric grease" when servicing serious systems such as the brakes. As not all readers on these forums will recognize and understand that all "dielectric greases" are equivalent and interchangeable.
I too stand by my post. "service your brake calipers ASAP with the recommended grease/lubricants recommended by the manufacture of the vehicle."
Blue
It is fascinating that you can make such a strong recommendation - fearmongering in fact - with exactly ZERO empirical evidence to support your case.
I will submit that all dielectric grease may not the same. I will qualify my future statements with ‘quality dielectric grease like Permatex brand’.
This ia what I use.
Furthermore, I have used this for 100’s of 1000’s of miles on my own trucks and cumulatively millions of miles on other SuperDuty trucks. I have compared it to products like the AC Delco brand mentioned above - and the ‘Permatex dielectric grease’ lasts longer/works better than every product I have tried.
I welcome you and everyone else to make wise and informed choices for your own vehicle. Your advice to use a product branded for the application is solid, but suggesting people remove a product that is proven to work better with no clue about its performance in this application is weak. Even comical to me.
Do not mistake my confidence for arrogance. I have given this advice to LOTS of people over the years and I have no doubt that nobody’s life is in danger. I would encourage EVERYONE to check slide pins regularly. 5k miles or annually is a good interval. Those that have chosen ‘qualtity dielectric grease like Permatex’ will find that their slide pins require service less often than the other options.
Protects electrical connections and wiring from salt, dirt and corrosion.
Extends the life of bulb sockets.
Prevents voltage leakage around any electrical connection.
Prevents spark plugs from fusing to boots.
Permatex® Silicone Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant
Permatex Silicone Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant protect and lubricates every part of a brake assembly and prevents comebacks caused by irritating brake noise.
-Formulated to reduce brake noise, vibrations and harshness
-Dampens natural vibrating frequencies
-Treated with the latest, rust, oxidation and anti-wear additives
-Fortified with high concentration, high temperature, ceramic solids
-Stays in place, protects at extreme temperatures (-54F – over 3000F)
-Chemical and corrosion resistant
-Will not wash away
-Compatible with most plastics and rubbers used in Disc Brake Caliper systems
And here I was worried that this might turn into a Ford vs Chevy thread...
All kidding aside, the purpose of this picture is to call attention to the part number to my tube of ACDelco Dielectric Silicone Grease, which differs from the ACDelco Silicone Brake Lubricant, posted by @Ridedan2 above.
The difference in part numbers isn't just because the size and container form factors are different. The product itself is different. Made by different chemical manufacturers (Fuchs vs AGS), with different component ingredients and percentages (some of which are trade secrets), with different flashpoints (500°F vs 300°F), and made and marketed for different purposes (spark plug boots, which is what I bought the tube above for, versus brake caliper slide pins, which is what the metal can shown a few posts above is for). And yet, both are described as "Silicone" greases. Both by ACDelco. But still, different products, to meet the specific needs of different applications.
On the other hand, Ford Motorcraft Silicon Brake Caliper Grease and Dielectric Compound is a single product approved by Ford for both applications.
Pick your poison. However, just because one manufacturer makes and markets a dual purpose silicone dielectric grease, doesn't mean that all silicone dielectric greases were formulated to be dual purpose.
Pick your poison. However, just because one manufacturer makes and markets a dual purpose silicone dielectric grease, doesn't mean that all silicone dielectric greases were formulated to be dual purpose.
Guys, I humbly admit my ignorance on this subject. But I still stand by the recommendations of the manufacturer, and or a product that meets the engineering specifications, that are clearly stated in every owners manual, is the best product to use. Not something that you happen to have read on the internet. And if that product is not available it is acceptable to substitute with a suitable product stated in the owners manual that meets the following engineering standard XXX-XX-XX.
It is one thing to deviate from the oil, transmission, coolant, spark plugs, air filters etc, But when it comes to the safety systems designed into the vehicle such as, airbags, and brake system etc. It is best to leave that to the engineers who spent the majority of their resources on during the development of the vehicle.
As an example, in Mr. Sous's recent issue he had with his brake caliper failing. What if that event had went south on him? He, and or worse other's, had suffered a loss. And a good lawyer discovers Mr. Sous does all his vehicles services, And then discovers Mr. Sous had used a brake system lubricating compound that he read on the WWW as the best available to use. However, that product did not meet the standards clearly stated in the owners manual for servicing the brake system for that particular vehicle, Everything Mr. Sous had worked for him and and his family and the service of his country is all for not. Folk's, that the real world.
My point that I failed to make is that to boldly broadcast across the World Wide Web that "Dieletric Grease" is the best thing since sliced bread on your brake calipers is just wrong.
"Oh my, ‘hub grease’, bearing grease, chassis grease etc have the SHORTEST service life of anything - except maybe antisieze. ‘Caliper’ grease is OK, but I’ve compared some high dollar stuff to good ole 100% silicone grease (quality dielectric grease) and the dielectric works better and lasts the longest. It has a HIGH melting point - which is why it stays put the longest. The other products gets really ‘thin’ and just run out when hot."
I do not do well on forums as much as I try. Thus I do not last long. But do not apologize. You can thank the those who have severed, and are currently serving in the military, for your safety and security due to their training for attention to detail when working with nuclear weapons and nuclear aircraft weapons systems. There is no grey, It's black or white. For their attention to detail is what keeps us all safe and secure day in and day out.
All parts are on site now including the left Stop Tech rotor that Amazon jacked up the order on and the copper washers that Motorcraft does NOT include with their hoses, despite the premium cost.
I am knee deep in wood working projects and fall landscaping though, so I probably won't get to the brake job until after the 2nd North GA Meet & Greet which is immediately following a week long camping trip to our local lake Hartwell.
Brakes should be fine traveling 25 miles out and back with the camper since I replaced the hose and caliper on the driver side before heading home 250 miles from TN towing the camper.
I will update when I have actually accomplished something.
Guys, I humbly admit my ignorance on this subject. But I still stand by the recommendations of the manufacturer, and or a product that meets the engineering specifications, that are clearly stated in every owners manual, is the best product to use. Not something that you happen to have read on the internet. And if that product is not available it is acceptable to substitute with a suitable product stated in the owners manual that meets the following engineering standard XXX-XX-XX.
It is one thing to deviate from the oil, transmission, coolant, spark plugs, air filters etc, But when it comes to the safety systems designed into the vehicle such as, airbags, and brake system etc. It is best to leave that to the engineers who spent the majority of their resources on during the development of the vehicle.
As an example, in Mr. Sous's recent issue he had with his brake caliper failing. What if that event had went south on him? He, and or worse other's, had suffered a loss. And a good lawyer discovers Mr. Sous does all his vehicles services, And then discovers Mr. Sous had used a brake system lubricating compound that he read on the WWW as the best available to use. However, that product did not meet the standards clearly stated in the owners manual for servicing the brake system for that particular vehicle, Everything Mr. Sous had worked for him and and his family and the service of his country is all for not. Folk's, that the real world.
My point that I failed to make is that to boldly broadcast across the World Wide Web that "Dieletric Grease" is the best thing since sliced bread on your brake calipers is just wrong.
"Oh my, ‘hub grease’, bearing grease, chassis grease etc have the SHORTEST service life of anything - except maybe antisieze. ‘Caliper’ grease is OK, but I’ve compared some high dollar stuff to good ole 100% silicone grease (quality dielectric grease) and the dielectric works better and lasts the longest. It has a HIGH melting point - which is why it stays put the longest. The other products gets really ‘thin’ and just run out when hot."
I do not do well on forums as much as I try. Thus I do not last long. But do not apologize. You can thank the those who have severed, and are currently serving in the military, for your safety and security due to their training for attention to detail when working with nuclear weapons and nuclear aircraft weapons systems. There is no grey, It's black or white. For their attention to detail is what keeps us all safe and secure day in and day out.
Blue Out
stick around buddy.....you'll see what's worth digesting
09-12-2020, 11:18 PM
...you'll see what's worth digesting