Okay, I watched the FordTechMakuLoco series about 50 times. I am about to put on the new timing chain. Doesn't piston #1 have to be TDC? Here's my dilemma. When I first positioned the cams to take out 3 roller followers on each head (lobes for cylinder #1 were at 11:00) I noticed that my #1 cylinder was just pas TDC, crank key was at 12:00 and the cam phasers L and R were at 1:00. Took out the 3 roller followers on each side. After neutralizing the valves by putting the crank key at the 6 position I was free to remove the chains, cams and the rest of the followers. Now I am about to put it back together and FordTechMakuLoco says to turn the crank so the key is at the 11:00 position. Well pistion #1 is not longer at TDC. If I set the time like this won't it 180 degrees out of time? It seems I need to go one more revolution to get it to true TDC for timing. By the way sparks plugs are out so I can see the top of piston #1. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
David

 

Haven't done the job, but from my understanding it doesn't matter if #1 is at TDC as long as you line up your timing marks with the marks on the chain. Should be impossible to screw up as long as all of your marks line up. Once you get it timed, manually spin the motor 2 or 3 full revolutions to ensure you're not hitting valves.

 

With the crank dot at six you don't have to pay attn to no 1 piston . How ever the cam lobes position of no1 and no 5 and the phasor Land r in the right configuration per drawing verify cams correct . The pistons are firmly attached to the crank and there is only one place in a 360 degree position it can be in.
The cams turn one half turn of crank full turn , if you look at cam gear and crank gear you will see phasor gear twice as large . The cam decides which stroke its in not the crank . Cam decides valves position . put all your followers back in then check .Yes you must turn the crank two cw revs by hand and prove no valve to piston contact . And yes you will lose all your timing marks for 122revs .
don't get confused with crank key its just easier to see from the top than the crank dot most guys use a mirror to confirm dot /keyway . You can buy a tool that locks it in to pin on timing case if you like ,its not expensive . but the best tool is the toothed cam phasor tool that holds phasor in place for torquing and removal .
Believe me I went thru all that no 1 tdc stuff until I found out I was worried over nothing - besides timing is not right at no 1 tdc anyway .
I have a simpler method without pulling followers and using that expensive hard to use tool but I won't go into that now .

 

You must understand the purpose of removing followers near the timing point it just to stop the spring pressure of the valves making it difficult for one person to get chains on . I don't like/use the tool that helps to remove followers its big clumsy hard to use and there is a risk of knocking valve clip off and dropping valve. Its not cheap either. You will have to realize that no 1 does not come up on tdc but one point on 360 rev of crank . Ford picked a timing point near no 1 tdc for various reasons .
If you had both cams out you could rotate the crank and see for yourself as many revs as you like . With cams out no valve would be pushed down ,same as removing all followers. It would then click in your head why there is a 2/1 ratio between the gears . the crank has to rotate twice to complete a four stroke .the cams rotate once . The cam decides whether no1 is on a compression stroke or a exhaust stroke .
If you phasors are on correctly . then the L and r will be like the diagram . Ford makes sure you check the cam lobes on 1 and 5 as a double check or just in case you haven't put phasors on yet . It is possible to damage a phasor and get it on wrong ,I guess they realize anything can happen . It only has one alignment pin .

 

Should I have used the roller flower tool for the remaining rollers or was it okay to remove the cams and just pick them out?

 

I do remove the cams carefully in sequence slowly per ford torque sequence . I had to replace all lashs and rollers anyway . Cam is torqued back down at timing point slowly watching rollers stay in place in sequence .89 inch pounds or around 8 foot pounds . No tool required for rollers . It makes cleaning head and cams easier all old parts must go back exactly where and how they came out. Cams are different left and right . Mark everything before removing . New of course doesn't apply . Cam journals are fitted so must go back exactly .
One downside is, its best to have two guys to get chains on as you have to fight valve springs One guy holds phasor with socket wrench while you put chain on it only takes a minute or so . While cams are out you get to see how pistons come to the top at only one place in 360 degrees .
Then leave it at six o'clock gear dot, hand lube everything ,put oiled cams in per drawing, then chains . Of course you oil soaked lashs overnight after you primed them per ford . Do not move crank until chains are on and tensioner pins pulled then verify everything before hand cranking two full turns of crank for no clunk or interference .
Note newer lashs are better and they are hard to test, rollers are new better design . Watch those old rollers for wear and the needle bearings start to fail on wheel ,one of mine got thrown to the side at 130k barely missing cam . A whole set of lashs/rollers around $270 but its worth it .

 

Thank you gentlemen! I appreciate your help. I will let you know how it goes!

 

Does "S.A. Aggie" handle for a TX Forum member mean you are in San Antonio? If you are ... ---- who knows ---- I might be able to offer a tip or two.

 

I am in Boerne! Which side of S.A. do you live?

 

Northeast - near Nacogdoches & Thousand Oaks.

 

That would be a helluva connection .

 

Posting Guru. If I get in a jam I may give you a shout!
Question, are there any decent after market roller followers out there that don’t cost $12 bucks a pop?

 

?? I just looked back at my parts order list. I got my (whole set of 24) from MMR Motorsports. Prices may have changed since. IDK. But I will say the guys at MMR were super to deal with.

Rocker/Followers--------------------- MMR 900942-----------------$179.99-----x-24-set---$179.99

 

Just priced the whole set of both lashs and rollers from my supplier oem select ebay. $318 thats $6.60 for 48 pieces .Mine were $265 years ago . Don't think I would do just rollers and lashs very hard to test ,they get ridges in them and fill with junk .I would think a stuck lash could damage a roller. My engine threw one no 8 roller to the side missing the cam so I had no choice . The roller was bad but i had no confidence in lashs , wasn't going to take a chance . A lot of noise comes from bad lashs .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-NEW-For...kAAOxyGqZSVpOX

 

FYI, "Posting Guru" is a title which changes as one's post count goes up. The username is above the title.